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dfKinsey claimed:
I believe that sexual orientation is very likely learned and cannot possibly be genetically encoded. It is easy to see how the cortex/brain can learn to be attracted to GWM. For instance gays/lesbians overwhelmingly report that no amount of bible-thumping or being sent to gay camp makes the slightest change to their preferences. I have myself tried hard, several times, to normalize or fix my embarassing attraction towards GWM, and failed every single time. I mean it works for maybe 3-4 days and then my temporary attraction towards normal or real girls just completely dies off.
This "conclusion" that sexual preference is learned at a young age and then fixed is nothing short of nonsense that runs counter to human sexuality, animal biology and medical research, and not to mention a mockery of the struggle of LGBT people.
I can't believe someone in 2021 would hold such thoughts
I think what I like about muscular or even athletic and fit female bodies is that they embody the freedom to look however they want and feel confident in their own skin. For most of history, women have felt social pressures to conform to expectations of what a feminine body should be, and it's only relatively recently that this has changed. Women can, and should, have the right to get tattoos, piercings, different colored hair or hairstyles, muscles, and whatever else they possibly dream of. I am not exclusively attracted to a certain type of physique, and I appreciate the different shapes and sizes of women.
dfkinsey..... You are saying that sexual orientation cannot possibly be genetic... and yet in the same paragraph state that you have tried several times to normalize your embarassing attraction.... ....?? So which is it -- inherited, or not ? Make up your mind ! Moreover, there is nothing embarrassing about admiring muscularity, in women or in men, if that is an attraction for someone.
There.... Your statement is also confusing... Maybe I just misunderstood what you are writing. From my perspective, sexual orientation was decided the moment a sperm joined an egg. It's trying to reverse the nature of your self that causes problems.... and the problem is purely in the eyes of the beholder. If sexual orientation does no harm to anyone, then it's no one else's business.
@there, @jturcot22
I'll admit that the process of making opposite sexes attract is probably controlled at the genetic level, say through the use of sex pheromones, and is not a purely learned behavior. But there is no denying that human sexual preferences go way beyond just being attracted to the opposite sex, and these are too complex to be handled at the genetic level. To give just a couple of examples:
Before sugar became a commodity and was only affordable by the wealthy, black teeth, i.e. sugar damaged teeth were considered incredibly attractive in some countries, notably in the U.K. and Japan.
Similar is the case with skin color: people in temperate countries consider tanned skin sexy and white skin as "pale" or "pasty", while those in tropical countries have the reverse preference.
Such sexual preferences can only be learned by the neocortex. My belief is that attraction to muscles is also a sexual preference that is similarly learned. But, there definitely seems to be a critical period after which it might be hard or impossible to change, despite more knowledge being gained.
For example a person in the 1800s might learn as an adult that sugar causes cavities, and therefore black teeth are more a sign of bad teeth than being wealthy. Or a white person might learn that, white skin is necessary in a temperate climate to obtain enough vitamin-D, and is therefore desirable, but nevertheless in either case, the attraction to black teeth or tanned skin does not go away.
Similarly, I guess most people on this site rationally know that muscles, though a great asset up to a point, become great liabilities beyond that. In particular, they also, in time, learn that it is biologically impossible to have big muscles and naturally large boobs at the same time. Yet, the attraction to this combination does not go away. Unfortunately, it seems to be the case that you can't consciously fix your sexual preferences after the critical period and you are not very conscious before the critical period (probably about 4-5 years old).
> Thanks guys for all the nice comments. I feel way better about myself now :)
Hopefully this thread not getting terribly hijacked from the original topic...
For Eatskeetdelete, just a bit of advice to take your thought process a bit further:
First, you have a right to privacy in your reading, research, and internet habits. Keeping something private does not mean that it is wrong. I suspect GWM is probably a private pleasure for many users here.
Next, everyone tries to determine if they are "normal" by comparing themselves to other people. But we all know not everyone is exactly the same. It takes a bit of courage to live life on your own terms.
IN GENERAL: any time you want to do something that is not the standard approach, or the majority opinion, there will be someone who will use their energy to try and make you explain, debate, or comply. Always remember: you are not required to explain or debate about who you are and the things you like, especially if the purpose of the conversation is to punish or change you. Also, the things you like and how you define yourself can (and should) change over the years.
Specific to muscular women: if liking muscular women is part of who you are and what you like, but you might be hiding your "true" self, then what happens when you want to find and date a muscular woman? Surely others will have thoughts or opinions about it. But remember: people will have thoughts and opinions no matter what you do.
To really enjoy life, you have to be true to who you really are. No one will always agree, and that is ok.
This may be an unpopular comment, but alas, it's how I feel. At 27, almost 28 years old, I'm way less insecure and embarrassed/ashamed about this aspect of my sexuality than I was as a kid. I had to hide it completely from everyone and was always afraid of getting caught on the computer as a child by either my brothers or my parents. Now, in the past few years, I've told friends and even one of my siblings. I'm much more open about it. However, what I am ashamed and embarrassed about is that I masturbate to pornography. That I use these images as a way to masturbate. I'm not here to tell anyone else what's right or wrong, but I know for myself that I feel kind of gross in how I relate to this site and other muscle sites/videos on the internet. It's basically an addiction, and I use it to avoid certain feelings. If I'm feeling bad, if I'm angry or sad or lonely, I look up images and masturbate and it just isn't right (for me). I feel even worse that I can't seem to stop.
For me, this is nothing to do with my love for muscular, athletic, strong women. In the real world, I think it's fine, it's beautiful, it's what I like. But my hidden use of pornography of these women makes me feel guilty.
Anyway, that's just me.
One other piece of advice I would give you is that shame/guilt/embarrassment is not something you can consciously erase. I'm glad that other people telling you you shouldn't feel those things seems to have helped for you, but in my opinion, it's important to follow the trail of your feelings. Why are you feeling those things? There is always a reason, and it may not always be obvious. Ultimately, I do agree with the others who have said these things, that your sexuality is your sexuality, and as long as you're not harming others or yourself, it's perfectly ok.
Hey man, what you are talking about might be linked to depression (or excessive masturbation as a sexual addiction but I mainly think depression) and that is more than likely being caused by something else since masturbating has been proven to not cause depression as many think it does.
It might be because you feel lonely or because of sexual frustration (Something I believe a lot of us feel because of the preference of women we have and how it's hard (for most) to be in a relationship with one.
I suffer from depression and have been aware of this for a long time (Im 38) so it kinda rung a bell when I read your comment. I'd recommend reading more of masturbation and depression online, see if it makes sense for you and if it does, get the help you need.
All I can say is: what a time to be alive. I almost feel sorry for our ancestors who also had this kind of mojo but didn't have the material to enjoy.
You can say that again, I wish I was in my teens during this time, dammit... during my teens things sucked! Can't imagine for those older than me (38)
A reminder...this world of loving muscular females wasn't always out there for all of us to see. Older guys like myself, grew up mostly feeling alone in our appreciation. Discovering WASP...which evolved into WPW helped but the advent of the internet, brought me Diana the Valkyrie. That place really made me realize, I wasn't alone. Now I knew there were others.
I think it was always there just smaller, it keeps getting bigger and bigger and boy did I feel alone before I got "online" in 1994ish and found others like me... it was such a relief but then again, suffered later as I entered my teens and young adulthood thinking I (and everyone else like me) just had issues and we were "defective" from the factory :(
Anyways, that changed around maybe 10 years ago a little less when I found out I actually suffered from depression and that was causing me to think differently about my preferences on a female body, they were 2 things I was mixing together based on my experiences (all 3 long lasting relationships failing because of how I thought about myself and femuscle and sex).
I would like to add while i don't feel guilty or ashamed for liking strong women i am starting to notice a big downside for me this being a feeling of missing out and not being completely satisfied i have had some relationships with non muscular women and i like them and they look great to me.
But i am always left wondering how would it be if i was with a muscular woman i have never seen one in person it seems unlikely i will ever get to date one so i don't even know how i would react to them in real life if it would be a lot better or just a little bit better.
I would like to add while i don't feel guilty or ashamed for liking strong women i am starting to notice a big downside for me this being a feeling of missing out and not being completely satisfied i have had some relationships with non muscular women and i like them and they look great to me.
But i am always left wondering how would it be if i was with a muscular woman i have never seen one in person it seems unlikely i will ever get to date one so i don't even know how i would react to them in real life if it would be a lot better or just a little bit better.
@yotv, If you find muscular women hotter than untrained non-muscular women, you will be completely blown away by how much sexier a muscular female is. "WARNING" once you are with a muscular female, it would hard to ever settle for a non-muscular female again. Being intimate with a strong, muscular female is so amazing that words wouldn't do it justice. Just my opinion.
Yea but considering how rare they are i don't think i could handle a breakup very well thats another downside i would be completely depend on her there would probably be nobody else if i was "normal" and my girlfrend dumped me or died i could just find another one who is equal to her
It's a blessing and a curse to find muscular females so hot!!
I don't feel guilty about it anymore at all, doesn't harm anyone and it's definetely not a "weird" fetish, there are much more accepted fetishes which I find way weirder than my attraction to muscles. But I still don't tell anyone, it's just that it's pointless to feel guilty about it, will only hinder you in the long run
I have never felt guilt or shame for being attracted to muscular women in itself. However, I did feel “guilt” in two aspects about being attracted to muscular women.
The first has to do with “availability.” Before I met my now-girlfriend, I was struggling badly in the dating scene. As I mentioned in another thread, the dating apps have few fit women and practically no buff women. My CrossFit gym didn’t really have anyone available, nor did anyone that I knew knew of anyone who they could set me up with, and when I was getting ready to enter my first competition and actually start going to events: COVID came and shut the world down. I asked for dating advice on other forums, and a lot of them told me that I was being too restrictive in what I was attracted to, given again that muscular women are quite rare. Furthermore, I was “guilted” for not being wiling to give women who were not fit a chance. Truth is in the past I have tried given sedentary women who were perfectly nice and sweet chances, but it led to a pretty much non-existent bedroom. It wasn’t fair to them and it wasn’t fair to men and I actually spent a good chunk of time with my therapist (yes, I admit without shame that I am in therapy) talking about how guilty I felt for being frustrated with dating struggles while at the same time having such a niche attraction. In my mind, it made believe that all my dating struggles were my fault because of what I was attracted to. Fortunately, I found a fellow crossfitter on the apps, and we are now together, but it was a struggle.
The second, and I really hope I don’t come across in the wrong way of saying this, aspect actually comes from the “schmoe” community. I have read comments and perspectives from other dudes who are attracted to muscular women, and some of them make me cringe incredibly hard. And also, being into CrossFit for awhile and knowing personally many women who lift, I have heard from those women what their experiences have been with other schmoes, and they are rarely positive. They know there are dudes who really are into them, and they’re cool with that. What they can’t stand, however, are the dudes who leave them creepy comments or straight out fetishize them to their face, and when those dudes get called out on it, instead of taking a moment to reflect on why that wasn’t a good thing to do, they immediately double back on it by blaming the women. While there are guys out there who like buff women and have actual decent social skills when interacting with them (as evidenced by the people dating or married to them,) it seems like there are quite a few who really need to learn social graces around them. One local bodybuilder who I became friends with after initially talking to her on instagram, even said after a bit “oh thank God you’re not one of THOSE guys.” It really is kinda telling, unfortunately.
This was well written and very true.
The older you get, I think the less you care about others' perception of your sexual tastes. Every guy growing up is going to have insecurities if their tastes differ from societal norms, it's basically a rite of passage. A lot of people echo the sentiment that you should be who you are and others don't actually care what your tastes are, which I don't think is entirely accurate. To some degree, yes, people don't care about what you do in general, but if you don't think people are going to say or think you're "weird" for liking massive female bodybuilders, I think that's unlikely.
What matters though, is that their opinions on it shouldn't matter to you. It's extremely difficult to come to terms with that, it's just natural for humans to want to feel accepted, but it certainly fades over time. It's kind of like when 70 year olds will say whatever the fuck they want to say because they just don't care anymore.
In a world where it's been deemed acceptable for an 8 year old girl to decide to become a boy, EVERYTHING I'm into, including women with muscle, pales in comparison. Additionally, I've never given a shit about what anyone thinks about me or what I'm into.
That's a horrifying statement. It won't EVER be acceptable for an 8 year old girl to become a boy in the eyes of morally honest people...
I have never felt guilt or shame for being attracted to muscular women in itself. However, I did feel “guilt” in two aspects about being attracted to muscular women.
The first has to do with “availability.” Before I met my now-girlfriend, I was struggling badly in the dating scene. As I mentioned in another thread, the dating apps have few fit women and practically no buff women. My CrossFit gym didn’t really have anyone available, nor did anyone that I knew knew of anyone who they could set me up with, and when I was getting ready to enter my first competition and actually start going to events: COVID came and shut the world down. I asked for dating advice on other forums, and a lot of them told me that I was being too restrictive in what I was attracted to, given again that muscular women are quite rare. Furthermore, I was “guilted” for not being wiling to give women who were not fit a chance. Truth is in the past I have tried given sedentary women who were perfectly nice and sweet chances, but it led to a pretty much non-existent bedroom. It wasn’t fair to them and it wasn’t fair to men and I actually spent a good chunk of time with my therapist (yes, I admit without shame that I am in therapy) talking about how guilty I felt for being frustrated with dating struggles while at the same time having such a niche attraction. In my mind, it made believe that all my dating struggles were my fault because of what I was attracted to. Fortunately, I found a fellow crossfitter on the apps, and we are now together, but it was a struggle.
The second, and I really hope I don’t come across in the wrong way of saying this, aspect actually comes from the “schmoe” community. I have read comments and perspectives from other dudes who are attracted to muscular women, and some of them make me cringe incredibly hard. And also, being into CrossFit for awhile and knowing personally many women who lift, I have heard from those women what their experiences have been with other schmoes, and they are rarely positive. They know there are dudes who really are into them, and they’re cool with that. What they can’t stand, however, are the dudes who leave them creepy comments or straight out fetishize them to their face, and when those dudes get called out on it, instead of taking a moment to reflect on why that wasn’t a good thing to do, they immediately double back on it by blaming the women. While there are guys out there who like buff women and have actual decent social skills when interacting with them (as evidenced by the people dating or married to them,) it seems like there are quite a few who really need to learn social graces around them. One local bodybuilder who I became friends with after initially talking to her on instagram, even said after a bit “oh thank God you’re not one of THOSE guys.” It really is kinda telling, unfortunately.
I really felt that first paragraph. Happy you found someone you're attracted to on all levels. Like you said: there's plenty of great women out there who are not into this lifestyle, but it's not fair to them to get involved when you're not attracted sexually. sigh one day...
I'd like to add my 2 cents here. For a while I did camming for gay men as I myself am into fitness. Generally findom and domination stuff. While the money was good it wasn't for me. That's a whole other story in itself but I quickly realized that having a fetish for muscular women PALES in comparison to so much else out there. These aren't just internet perverts in their moms basements either. I'm talking about lawyers that get off to being shrunk by shrink rays, politicians that want to eat shit, guys that have to make themselves bleed in order to get off. I am throughly convinved that if you don't have at least some sort of fetish you are in the minority.
"Fittest" is relative. "Advantageous" is more like it. Or the most appropriate "fit" to extend species legacy in the future.