Forum
>
Site Discussion
>
Thread
Log in |
Register
I'm also fine with Chipperpip's solution of renaming it to "caucasian".
I was going to go ahead, but looking it up the term is apparently fairly outdated nowadays, since it's based on incorrect theories (kind of like calling Native Americans "Indians" because Columbus mistook what continent he landed on), so I'll probably leave it as-is. This also lets us avoid any annoying nitpicky arguments involving the Caucasus mountain range.
I was going to go ahead, but looking it up the term is apparently fairly outdated nowadays, since it's based on incorrect theories (kind of like calling Native Americans "Indians" because Columbus mistook what continent he landed on), so I'll probably leave it as-is. This also lets us avoid any annoying nitpicky arguments involving the Caucasus mountain range.
At the end of the day, though race is a flawed and arbitrary metric, it’s still useful for describing relationships with others. Light-skinned Europeans and their light-skinned descendants are “white” relative to everyone else. That’s just how it is, and instead of running away from their whiteness we just need to accept it and tag them accordingly so those of us into WOC can look at who we want.
I'm not going to argue the ethics of having race tags, however to put nationality tags on top of that is just ridiculous to me. There's a limited number of tags you can have and now it seems that by default two ethnicity tags are in every pic. This is just useless waste of space
The 10-tag limit is indeed not enough, maybe we can increase it to 20 or even remove the limit (but avoid malicious additions
Tags applied to the model as a whole don't count towards the tag limit on individual pics; that's one of their main features.
I'm not going to argue the ethics of having race tags, however to put nationality tags on top of that is just ridiculous to me. There's a limited number of tags you can have and now it seems that by default two ethnicity tags are in every pic. This is just useless waste of space
I'm seeing incorrect assumptions already. Someone made an ethnicity/nationality assignment based on a married name. Example A: Carrie Goforth-Wojciechowski
Do you know how many North American people have "Polish" last names? This is going to turn into an amateur genealogy project.
The 10-tag limit is indeed not enough, maybe we can increase it to 20 or even remove the limit (but avoid malicious additions
There is a point where too many tags actually potentially lowers the quality of tagging. I can’t say what that number is, and we’d need to see examples of where people thought more tags would have been beneficial.
As to the original topic of the thread, ethnicity and nationality labelling can get messy. Consider a white South African can be labelled African, while a black European can be labelled European, but people would likely throw a fit if a white person born and raised in Singapore being called Asian. Also should we be labelling a French person as European or just leave out the adjective? Then further, is a Spanish person considered Latin and what about a Brazilian of Japanese descent?
I'm seeing incorrect assumptions already. Someone made an ethnicity/nationality assignment based on a married name. Example A: Carrie Goforth-Wojciechowski
Do you know how many North American people have "Polish" last names? This is going to turn into an amateur genealogy project.
I’m the one who added that, I heard from someone on r/bikinitalk that she’s Polish and Native American, so I just went with it.
There is a point where too many tags actually potentially lowers the quality of tagging. I can’t say what that number is, and we’d need to see examples of where people thought more tags would have been beneficial.
As to the original topic of the thread, ethnicity and nationality labelling can get messy. Consider a white South African can be labelled African, while a black European can be labelled European, but people would likely throw a fit if a white person born and raised in Singapore being called Asian. Also should we be labelling a French person as European or just leave out the adjective? Then further, is a Spanish person considered Latin and what about a Brazilian of Japanese descent?
Regarding the specifics of the tagging systems, I think we ought to expand the character limit, add expand the limits of the tags, and/or make a “series” of tags that fall under specific groups, like certain muscles (we can base much of these on the original tags). For example, we can group abs-related tags under “abs” and have something like “veiny abs” or “8 pack” look like abs: veiny abs or abs: 8 pack. In the case of race/ethnicity/nationality we can split these based on these. Like Race: East Asian (things can get more specific from here, I’m not sure if we’d have to do something like Race: East Asian: (Han?) Chinese. Of course, Chinese is also a nationality, so maybe we’d have it be something like Race: East Asian, Nationality: Chinese, Ethnicity: Han Chinese, or East Asian (race), Han Chinese (ethnicity), Chinese (Nationality). Of course, the (ethnicity So for Miss GoForth, we can list Native American (race), American (Nationality), etc.
Expanding the character limit would also help with some tags. I tried to get “Southwest Asian/North African” off the ground, but the character limit prevented me from doing that, making things pretty awkward.
For the point on nationality origin based names I’d agree. They should be evidence based on something that has been published or from a model’s profile.
Beyond that, my concern is that the ethnicity can get stupidly granular (imagine Midwest American) and hybrid ethnicities are just going to make a small number of results. The “Southwest Asian/North African” being an example of this. Also what is Southwest Asian and what is North African? Are you meaning Arabic, Persian, Burber ethnicity or something else? If it is origin, then African and Algerian (if they are from Algeria) would be better tags.
BTW I’m already struggling with the “Asian American” and “African American”, since we don’t say “European American”. I’d be tempted to split something like that into Asian (ethnicity) and American (nationality).
What I’d push for in the future is being able to do multi-tag searches, so you could mix them up, during a search.
For the point on nationality origin based names I’d agree. They should be evidence based on something that has been published or from a model’s profile.
Beyond that, my concern is that the ethnicity can get stupidly granular (imagine Midwest American) and hybrid ethnicities are just going to make a small number of results. The “Southwest Asian/North African” being an example of this. Also what is Southwest Asian and what is North African? Are you meaning Arabic, Persian, Burber ethnicity or something else? If it is origin, then African and Algerian (if they are from Algeria) would be better tags.
BTW I’m already struggling with the “Asian American” and “African American”, since we don’t say “European American”. I’d be tempted to split something like that into Asian (ethnicity) and American (nationality).
What I’d push for in the future is being able to do multi-tag searches, so you could mix them up, during a search.
Southwest Asian/North African is the proper term for people from what people call the “Middle East”, a Eurocentric term. It’s pretty broad, but is absolutely preferable to “middle eastern.” The subject of which ethnic group certain women belong to is pretty complicated due to ethnic diversity there, so when there’s no clear indication it helps a lot. By the way, “Berber” is a slur, it’s literally calling Imazighen barbarians. Also, North Africans tend to be mixed Arab and well, North African, which includes the aforementioned imazighen and other non-Arabs like Copts. While I’d absolutely prefer to just tag women from one area as “southwest asian” and others as “North African”, we don’t always have clear indicators of where they’re from, so…sometimes that tag is what we have to rely on.
While nationalities can help, they ultimately don’t describe race, after all it’s entirely possible for say a black person to be a Chinese citizen if they chose to become one. Sure, they’re not of a Chinese ethnic group, but by citizenship they’d be Chinese.
About Africa, it’s an entire damn continent, and people across each area of it tend to look very different from each other. If my whole “tag series” idea works then we could make an African tag that further splits into more specific tags.
As for the point about like, “Asian American” or “African American”, I’ve been just adding their race and nationality separately.
all classification based on racial criteria are forbidden by the law in France because those discussions always end badly or very badly.
Well, we’re not in France now, are we? Race is a social construct, but some of us do like to see certain women. I, for one, prefer women of color, so I’m personally inclined to reap the benefits of a system that allows me to see what I like.
all classification based on racial criteria are forbidden by the law in France because those discussions always end badly or very badly.
As long as we aren’t looking to segregate or discriminate then it should be okay. Yes it can be messy and people may not have the same definitions, and they can be absurd (just see some of the “ethnicities” to chose from on some of forms in the US).
I think the intent here is more to allow people to find women who are more along the lines of what they are looking for, than anything else. There are tags that fail at this (such as African and Asian), but that’s what happens when a tag is too broad or fails to take into account nuances.
While I won’t deny that the bodybuilding community (especially in this case female bodybuilders) is sadly overwhelmingly white, I think it’s ridiculous to accept whiteness as the default. That’s a terrible thing to do and has been an aspect of discrimination in the past.