I just think this is getting out of hand. If you don’t like TS women then don’t look at them on the site. No one is forcing you to stare at them, plenty of free will still at play.
I guess I would have expected more tolerance and acceptance from this “community”.
I appreciate this decision. I don't care about labels of "phobias". There are plenty of other communities for trans and the like, and they can go there since it specifically caters to that sort of thing.
For instance, Star trek and star wars fans don't need to be in the same category just because they both have aliens and space ships.
Purely expressive my own opinion here. A lot of people like to refer to this as a “community” and as a community we should be accepting of others, no matter the label or others personal thoughts. Digital segregation seems like a silly, and destructive concept on this site.
Personally I find this very ironic being that half the men in the chat turn to adult discussions about MBBs or their own genitalia very quickly.
I understand this. But it sounds to me like you're looking at the effect and not the cause. What is causing the users to dislike trans posts? Is it because the posters don't pass? Is it the genitals? Well, I can knock both of those out right now with my suggestions (censoring my genitals, using my more feminine pics). So... With those two things, what else could be the reason people don't like trans posts?
Straight-up transphobia, that's what I think. So it seems to me instead of taking a stand against transphobia, you're bending to the transphobes and giving them power by giving in to their whims. In my eye this is the wrong thing to do, not the right thing. At the end of the day it's your site - but take it from a trans woman who's been around the block. I've already challenged a lot of norms and I aim to challenge quite a lot more. Challenging the norm is a good thing. I think people should want to see unconventional perspectives and bodies represented. And with female muscle - a kink that's already so genderfucky (women who take a lot of steroids will look very masc), well... I don't know if I need to go on.
I can argue my point further by the mod team still giving Paige a pass and debating as my posts got removed. She looks like a man. I look like a woman. We are both female. This is just true. Even aside from Paige, there are hundreds of women posted on the site who look more like men than I do. So... Yeah, I'm confident this is a transphobia issue.
I understand this. But it sounds to me like you're looking at the effect and not the cause. What is causing the users to dislike trans posts? Is it because the posters don't pass? Is it the genitals? Well, I can knock both of those out right now with my suggestions (censoring my genitals, using my more feminine pics). So... With those two things, what else could be the reason people don't like trans posts?
Straight-up transphobia, that's what I think. So it seems to me instead of taking a stand against transphobia, you're bending to the transphobes and giving them power by giving in to their whims. In my eye this is the wrong thing to do, not the right thing. At the end of the day it's your site - but take it from a trans woman who's been around the block. I've already challenged a lot of norms and I aim to challenge quite a lot more. Challenging the norm is a good thing. I think people should want to see unconventional perspectives and bodies represented. And with female muscle - a kink that's already so genderfucky (women who take a lot of steroids will look very masc), well... I don't know if I need to go on.
I can argue my point further by the mod team still giving Paige a pass and debating as my posts got removed. She looks like a man. I look like a woman. We are both female. This is just true. Even aside from Paige, there are hundreds of women posted on the site who look more like men than I do. So... Yeah, I'm confident this is a transphobia issue.
One thing that no one has really touched on in this discussion is that a lot of users really don't want to see trans posts. Both qualifiers are important. This is what sets this apart from posts of cis women who may not be to everyone's liking.
My mental model of the situation is something like this:
percentage of userbase times magnitude of negative reaction
This isn't a precise equation or anything, of course, but a general relationship. If this value is sufficiently high for a particular type of picture, it becomes difficult to maintain those pictures on the main site, and you start to get things like a flood of inflammatory comments and image reports.
My experience over the past few years has convinced me that trans posts fall into this category. The same would apply if we allowed this sort of thing on the main site, which is why there continues to be a separate Fantasy section for it.
Some people brought up Paige Dumars, and actually the same thing applies to her images. We've had discussions about it in mod chat and haven't come up with a good solution, so we do what we have done with trans posts up until now; delete the more extreme posts that get out of hand. Unlike trans women, Paige doesn't fit into a cleanly identifiable category for which we can have a separate forum section.
i was likely thought about when this post was made because I'm a trans woman and have posted a few pics here. I'm going to give my honest thoughts on this: I think it's logically ridiculous let alone discriminatory. my muscles, face, and body are as feminine if not more feminine than many of the the women posted here. that doesn't make me more valid or more female, i'm just stating what I know is true because I'm a frequent user of the site and I've seen the kinds of women posted here. there are women here who straight-up just look like men (Paige was mentioned for example) and they're allowed to be posted... because they have a vagina? i don't understand, it makes no sense.
in one of my pics you could see a bit of a bulge but if that's the issue i can just censor that area? my validity should not depend on my passing but if passing is the issue then that's not really an issue for me. i could upload some with my face more clearly visible but i've been enjoying the gradual fade from anonymity to visibility. but once again, this is not something i should need to do.
looking forward to seeing the response to this. i can not imagine justifying a position like this on any basis besides straight up segregating me just for being trans lol
It doesn't. That was an explanation as to why that outlier has popularity. Like I said, to each their own. I agreed that the subsection is a good compromise. It's a give and take deal. I am not saying clean house and delete everything. Not trying to argue nor bash anyone, so we can agree to disagree on whatever it may be. Cheers
For the user saying there is one "trans" getting many favorites, it is a combination of people either not knowing they are trans before liking it and all of the small number of people searching/finding a rare "trans" woman on this site and liking it.
What does it matter why they’re liking it? This site is admiring pictures online, no one is dating these women.
Personally, I see "transwomen" as men. There's no way I will ever see them as women. I don't consider make up, wigs, "feminity" or any socially constructed behaviors as defining womanhood. I assume, the reason most men don't want to see them on the site is exactly because of this, they don't consider them women. The nerve right? All in all, does everything containing women have to include trans identifying men? That seems to be quite sexist, men getting livid because some people don't quite see them the way they see themselves. hmmmm......
Facts, to each their own but this site is "girlswithmuscle", to appreciate real women who worked their tails off to be fit and muscular. People who want to see "transwomen" should be happy with a subsection. That is a perfect compromise for all. If we took an anonymous poll, the people wanting "trans" on this site would be undeniably the minority percentage. For the user saying there is one "trans" getting many favorites, it is a combination of people either not knowing they are trans before liking it and all of the small number of people searching/finding a rare "trans" woman on this site and liking it.
I've defended the inclusion of Paige Dumars in the past. And, regarding the picture of the "female to male", personally, I'll admit I'm quite the outlier in that regard since I wouldn't have a problem. But I do see your point, most guys wouldn't want to see those either. Either way, If most of the user base don't want to see those pictures, why do we have to force them to include them? Aren't you glad with your separate forum? You get what you want concentrated in a part of the site. Why do you want other people to see them so badly?
It goes back to what other were saying about “othering” and there being no difference for a trans/cis woman for people just looking at pictures online. There are a lot of great pictures that are segregated to a corner of the site this way.
Others think differently. What is the issue of simply ignoring trans posts instead of reporting them and trying to get them taken down? If someone shares your point of view, they can simply not click on those pictures. If someone has the opposite point of view, these pictures are taken down entirely. There's a disconnect there.
Someone like Paige DuMars is bordering very close to masculinity in numerous aspects. If there was a female to male trans bodybuilder like this, do you think this is appropriate for the site?
I've defended the inclusion of Paige Dumars in the past. And, regarding the picture of the "female to male", personally, I'll admit I'm quite the outlier in that regard since I wouldn't have a problem. But I do see your point, most guys wouldn't want to see those either. Either way, If most of the user base don't want to see those pictures, why do we have to force them to include them? Aren't you glad with your separate forum? You get what you want concentrated in a part of the site. Why do you want other people to see them so badly?
If it wasn't in the minority then this wouldn't be a problem in the first place? Your example is weak at best that's not indicative of anything really. Im not going to argue with you though there no point. nothing personal have a good one
Does the people who report it outweigh the people who favorite or just don’t give a fuck? That’s the question you have to ask yourself. A vocal minority can still cause havoc with the mods.
its a compromise not everyone shares your tastes and now you'll have a place where you can see it and talk about it without people ridiculing and leaving mean comments, photos getting deleted etc. get off your high horse I'm not deciding anything
No one's asking to conform to certain tastes except the people that report these images. The stance has always been "if you don't like it, skip it." Your angle happens to be that it challenges your sexuality so you report it.
What are those numbers? You're talking about this being some minority when I've pointed out someone that climbs to high score of the day when she's posted.
My point is that not everyone reacts the same as you. I am not saying that the pictures are in ANY way comparable to that situation but I do have to point out that not everyone reacts the same and shaming them for it, not being 'comfortable with their sexuality', not only goes against the morals of your own argument but makes the topic uncomfortable to assess without emotion. In my mind he did change the channel...he did not write in.
I mean ultimately that's what it boils down to. Why else would someone report it? I don't like certain images that get posted here but instead of reporting them I can choose to ignore them. That's on the person to figure out themselves, not the mods.
The difference between people who want to see them compared to people who do is that there's an easy workaround for the crowd that doesn't want to see them. Go to the next pic, there are only a million others. When someone complains, the pictures get deleted. Not exactly fair or equal, is it?
I agree and arguing with you about it would point out my bias but I do not think we can have everyone happy -edit; that was silly to say, you guys knew this long before I typed :), but I do think have a good compromise.
Personally, I see "transwomen" as men. There's no way I will ever see them as women. I don't consider make up, wigs, "feminity" or any socially constructed behaviors as defining womanhood. I assume, the reason most men don't want to see them on the site is exactly because of this, they don't consider them women. The nerve right? All in all, does everything containing women have to include trans identifying men? That seems to be quite sexist, men getting livid because some people don't quite see them the way they see themselves. hmmmm......
Others think differently. What is the issue of simply ignoring trans posts instead of reporting them and trying to get them taken down? If someone shares your point of view, they can simply not click on those pictures. If someone has the opposite point of view, these pictures are taken down entirely. There's a disconnect there.
Someone like Paige DuMars is bordering very close to masculinity in numerous aspects. If there was a female to male trans bodybuilder like this, do you think this is appropriate for the site?
Personally, I see "transwomen" as men. There's no way I will ever see them as women. I don't consider make up, wigs, "feminity" or any socially constructed behaviors as defining womanhood. I assume, the reason most men don't want to see them on the site is exactly because of this, they don't consider them women. The nerve right? All in all, does everything containing women have to include trans identifying men? That seems to be quite sexist, men getting livid because some people don't quite see them the way they see themselves. hmmmm......
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I just think this is getting out of hand. If you don’t like TS women then don’t look at them on the site. No one is forcing you to stare at them, plenty of free will still at play.
I guess I would have expected more tolerance and acceptance from this “community”.
I appreciate this decision. I don't care about labels of "phobias". There are plenty of other communities for trans and the like, and they can go there since it specifically caters to that sort of thing.
For instance, Star trek and star wars fans don't need to be in the same category just because they both have aliens and space ships.
Purely expressive my own opinion here. A lot of people like to refer to this as a “community” and as a community we should be accepting of others, no matter the label or others personal thoughts. Digital segregation seems like a silly, and destructive concept on this site.
Personally I find this very ironic being that half the men in the chat turn to adult discussions about MBBs or their own genitalia very quickly.
Perfectly said 🙌
I understand this. But it sounds to me like you're looking at the effect and not the cause. What is causing the users to dislike trans posts? Is it because the posters don't pass? Is it the genitals? Well, I can knock both of those out right now with my suggestions (censoring my genitals, using my more feminine pics). So... With those two things, what else could be the reason people don't like trans posts?
Straight-up transphobia, that's what I think. So it seems to me instead of taking a stand against transphobia, you're bending to the transphobes and giving them power by giving in to their whims. In my eye this is the wrong thing to do, not the right thing. At the end of the day it's your site - but take it from a trans woman who's been around the block. I've already challenged a lot of norms and I aim to challenge quite a lot more. Challenging the norm is a good thing. I think people should want to see unconventional perspectives and bodies represented. And with female muscle - a kink that's already so genderfucky (women who take a lot of steroids will look very masc), well... I don't know if I need to go on.
I can argue my point further by the mod team still giving Paige a pass and debating as my posts got removed. She looks like a man. I look like a woman. We are both female. This is just true. Even aside from Paige, there are hundreds of women posted on the site who look more like men than I do. So... Yeah, I'm confident this is a transphobia issue.
One thing that no one has really touched on in this discussion is that a lot of users really don't want to see trans posts. Both qualifiers are important. This is what sets this apart from posts of cis women who may not be to everyone's liking.
My mental model of the situation is something like this:
percentage of userbase times magnitude of negative reaction
This isn't a precise equation or anything, of course, but a general relationship. If this value is sufficiently high for a particular type of picture, it becomes difficult to maintain those pictures on the main site, and you start to get things like a flood of inflammatory comments and image reports.
My experience over the past few years has convinced me that trans posts fall into this category. The same would apply if we allowed this sort of thing on the main site, which is why there continues to be a separate Fantasy section for it.
Some people brought up Paige Dumars, and actually the same thing applies to her images. We've had discussions about it in mod chat and haven't come up with a good solution, so we do what we have done with trans posts up until now; delete the more extreme posts that get out of hand. Unlike trans women, Paige doesn't fit into a cleanly identifiable category for which we can have a separate forum section.
i was likely thought about when this post was made because I'm a trans woman and have posted a few pics here. I'm going to give my honest thoughts on this: I think it's logically ridiculous let alone discriminatory. my muscles, face, and body are as feminine if not more feminine than many of the the women posted here. that doesn't make me more valid or more female, i'm just stating what I know is true because I'm a frequent user of the site and I've seen the kinds of women posted here. there are women here who straight-up just look like men (Paige was mentioned for example) and they're allowed to be posted... because they have a vagina? i don't understand, it makes no sense.
in one of my pics you could see a bit of a bulge but if that's the issue i can just censor that area? my validity should not depend on my passing but if passing is the issue then that's not really an issue for me. i could upload some with my face more clearly visible but i've been enjoying the gradual fade from anonymity to visibility. but once again, this is not something i should need to do.
looking forward to seeing the response to this. i can not imagine justifying a position like this on any basis besides straight up segregating me just for being trans lol
It doesn't. That was an explanation as to why that outlier has popularity. Like I said, to each their own. I agreed that the subsection is a good compromise. It's a give and take deal. I am not saying clean house and delete everything. Not trying to argue nor bash anyone, so we can agree to disagree on whatever it may be. Cheers
What does it matter why they’re liking it? This site is admiring pictures online, no one is dating these women.
Facts, to each their own but this site is "girlswithmuscle", to appreciate real women who worked their tails off to be fit and muscular. People who want to see "transwomen" should be happy with a subsection. That is a perfect compromise for all. If we took an anonymous poll, the people wanting "trans" on this site would be undeniably the minority percentage. For the user saying there is one "trans" getting many favorites, it is a combination of people either not knowing they are trans before liking it and all of the small number of people searching/finding a rare "trans" woman on this site and liking it.
It goes back to what other were saying about “othering” and there being no difference for a trans/cis woman for people just looking at pictures online. There are a lot of great pictures that are segregated to a corner of the site this way.
I've defended the inclusion of Paige Dumars in the past. And, regarding the picture of the "female to male", personally, I'll admit I'm quite the outlier in that regard since I wouldn't have a problem. But I do see your point, most guys wouldn't want to see those either. Either way, If most of the user base don't want to see those pictures, why do we have to force them to include them? Aren't you glad with your separate forum? You get what you want concentrated in a part of the site. Why do you want other people to see them so badly?
Except I’m not the one who brought it up, that was your conjecture to begin with.
Lol to make me feel better? I’m not the one that hits the report button out of sexual insecurity.
Does the people who report it outweigh the people who favorite or just don’t give a fuck? That’s the question you have to ask yourself. A vocal minority can still cause havoc with the mods.
No one's asking to conform to certain tastes except the people that report these images. The stance has always been "if you don't like it, skip it." Your angle happens to be that it challenges your sexuality so you report it.
What are those numbers? You're talking about this being some minority when I've pointed out someone that climbs to high score of the day when she's posted.
I agree and arguing with you about it would point out my bias but I do not think we can have everyone happy -edit; that was silly to say, you guys knew this long before I typed :), but I do think have a good compromise.
What minority? How are you deciding what people want to see or not. This trans bodybuilder for example does very well when she's posted:
https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/?name=...
Others think differently. What is the issue of simply ignoring trans posts instead of reporting them and trying to get them taken down? If someone shares your point of view, they can simply not click on those pictures. If someone has the opposite point of view, these pictures are taken down entirely. There's a disconnect there.
Someone like Paige DuMars is bordering very close to masculinity in numerous aspects. If there was a female to male trans bodybuilder like this, do you think this is appropriate for the site?
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190605...
Personally, I see "transwomen" as men. There's no way I will ever see them as women. I don't consider make up, wigs, "feminity" or any socially constructed behaviors as defining womanhood. I assume, the reason most men don't want to see them on the site is exactly because of this, they don't consider them women. The nerve right? All in all, does everything containing women have to include trans identifying men? That seems to be quite sexist, men getting livid because some people don't quite see them the way they see themselves. hmmmm......