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How are BF percentages estimated from photo evidence? I would be interested to see how short bodybuilders like Michaela Aycock and Anastasia Leonova chart compared to huge ones, like Renne Toney or Anastasia Korableva. It would be neat to know what is the upper end of the scale!
Bodyweight of 67.4 kg according this post at 1.524 m. Would 5% be an alright estimate for BF for the righthand pics?
So that would be 67.4 - 67.4 * 0.05 * 1.282 - 7.6 * 1.524
MM of 51.487 MMI 33.791 FMME of 675.82! (If I am not mistaken)
This is 4.5 weeks after Olympia 2023.
The formula can be summarised as:
FMME = 20 x (1 - 1.282 x bodyfat percentage) x (pure bodymass)/(height^2) - 152
Assuming the fractional uncertainty in bodyfat percentage dominates (which is pretty valid), the uncertainty in FMME is given by:
d(FMME) = 25.64 x d(bodyfat percentage) x (pure bodymass)/(height^2)
How are BF percentages estimated from photo evidence? I would be interested to see how short bodybuilders like Michaela Aycock and Anastasia Leonova chart compared to huge ones, like Renne Toney or Anastasia Korableva. It would be neat to know what is the upper end of the scale!
At the moment I'm not very good at estimating BF percentages from the photos. So I'm hoping that there might be experienced users in the forum who can estimate BF percentages well. So far I've had to rely on the data provided (like on bodyspace.bodybuilding) or very rough estimates (8% - 15% for athletes during competitions).
I would also like to know how high the values can go. Whether the value of 400 can be achieved.
I'm interested as to where you got this from, can you supply a reference maybe?
Also are those plots made with latex?
Main source is this page. Unfortunately, you have to translate it and extract some information from the text. It is also the source for the mean values +/- standard deviation assumed for women: 5.0 ± 1.9 kg/m².
I made those plots with svg (and exported as png). I usually do this when I need to combine text and diagrams, graphics or images.
It's actually height squared ("height in m^2") in both the muscle mass formula and the MMI formula, giving an FMME of 391.19.
For an assumed 5% body fat percentage, I get the same FMME-value. Since I cannot yet estimate this BF percentage very well, I will give further FMME values for other percentages: abt 384 (for 6%), abt 376 (for 7%), abt 369 (for 8%), abt 361 (for 9%) and abt 354 (for 10%).
In the overview map in the first post, I listed, among others, three Japanese female bodybuilders/physique athletes with estimated FMME values. Now I would like to ask for your help in more accurately estimating the body fat percentage of the three athletes.
(1) Utako Mizuma (水間 詠子), Miss Nihon contest 2003, 38 years old, height 156 cm, weight 52 kg, very rough body fat estimate 8 % - 13 %. 3 images.
(2) Yukiko Matsuo (松尾 友喜子), number 153, 56 years old, height 149.6 cm, weight 39 kg, very rough body fat estimate 10 % - 15 %; and Emi Kuriyama (栗山 恵美), number 157, 41 years old, height 156 cm, weight 48 kg, very rough body fat estimate 10 % - 15 %. Both from Nishinihon contest 2024 (West Japan). I suspect that Yukiko Matsuo's body fat percentage is lower than Emi Kuriyama's. 3 images total.
(1st image: Yukiko Matsuo, 2nd image: Emi Kuriyama, 3rd image: both)
(Side note: Unfortunately, the links to bodyspace.bodybuilding no longer work.)
What is Amazonska's fmme level
According to the previews of her HerBiceps videos (like https://www.herbiceps.com/videos/96638 or https://www.herbiceps.com/videos/93599) her height is 5 ft 6 in und her weight was 209 pd. If I now deduct about 5 pd for the implants, I get the following FMME-values depending on different body fat percentages: abt 422 (for 10 % BF), abt 414 (for 11 % BF), abt 405 (for 12 % BF), abt 397 (for 13 % BF), abt 388 (for 14 % BF) and abt 380 (for 15 % BF). So perhaps between 380 and 422.
But, as mentioned, I am not good at estimating BF percentages. Someone who is better able to estimate BF percentages should watch the preview videos and the corresponding preview images and make an estimate.
From your estimates:
(1) 217±14
(2) 141±11
(3) 179±13
Honestly, I think this is about as accurate as you can get and still be confident.
Yes. But I still hope that there is a body fat percentage expert somewhere in the gwm-forum.
Don't you want to do something similar for bicep size and arm circumference across age, height, weight etc? gj with the data
Thanks for the suggestion. But for now, I want to focus on the overall muscular development of women (with different FMME-values) before looking at specific muscles. Biceps measurements are tricky because they’re sometimes exaggerated or inaccurate. However, I may plan to include some details on specific features in this little project, like at which FMME-values a (convincing) lat spread becomes possible.
Now I would like to briefly try to estimate the FMME-value of the actress Emily Bett Rickards based on the screencaps from the trailer for "Queen of the Ring" and comparison images from bodyspace.bodybuilding.
https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/2419973/ https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/2419974/ https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/2419976/
And for comparison 5 images (FMME-values between 165 and 187):
I rank her above ladymeag (FMME 165) and below Jenae Smith (FMME 187), and relatively safely also below Jessica Preswich (FMME 181). This gives me a rough range for FMME of 165/170 to 180.
What is your opinion?
A couple more data:
Brittany Diamond: weight 77.2 kg, bf 9.5+-0.5%, height 170.2 cm => FMME=316+-3
Monique Jones: weight 104.3 kg, bf 15+-5%, height 172 cm => FMME=420+-50
Nataliya Kuznetsova: weight 101 kg, bf 15+-5%, height 170 cm => FMME=410+-40
Julia Caceres: weight 69.85 kg, bf 12.5+-2.5%, height 165 cm => FMME=279+-16
Lena Ramsteiner: weight 72 kg, bf 8+-4%, height 170 cm => FMME=295+-26
Anastasia Leonova: weight 70.7 kg, bf 8+-5%, height 157 cm => FMME=363+-37
A couple more data:
Thanks for the additional data, lost36. The detailed data on Brittany Diamond is especially helpful. I can add it to the next version of the "Selected (maximum) FMME values" overview as "calculated with image".
For Yôko Shimizu I have a FMME value of almost exactly 200 in the diagram as "calculated without image" (instagram post from November 2022; she weighed 57.5 kg). Yôko Shimizu started her competitive career with 3 tournaments between July 2022 and September 2022 and continued with another 3 tournaments between August 2023 and October 2023. After the tournament in October 2023 she posted on instagram (https://www.instagram.com/p/CyYasHKSaz0/):
The left picture is from before the 2023 tournaments, the right picture is from one week after the last competition in 2023. It is safe to assume that she also had a FMME-value of about 200 in the off-season photo (weight differs by only 0.5 kg). According to this Instagram post, she weighed 47 kg at the time of Miss Nihon 2023, which matches the reported 46 kg at the Tokai Tournament in 2022. Comparing her pictures (https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/?name=...) to the pictures of Jessica Preswich and Jenae Smith in this thread, I would estimate her FMME-value in competition to be around 190-200.
You can transform the FMME-formula to calculate body fat percentage given known FMME-values, height and weight.
BF percentage = (body weight - (FMME * height² / 20) - implants - 7.6 * height²) / (1.282 * body weight)
This would result in a BF % of about 6%, which is less than what I had used for normal athletes (10% to 15%). For comparison, a picture of Jenae Smith with a stated 6% BF and a calculated FMME-value of 242:
For the next version of the "Selected (maximum) FMME values" overview, I would revise some estimates (such as Andrea Shaw and Utako Mizuma) and possibly omit Yukiko Matsuo.
After reading up on that paper, I quote: (bottom of page 54)
In the theoretical background, it was explained in detail why fat mass (FM) cannot be equated with fat tissue mass (FGM). In the present study, the FGM was calculated from the FM, assuming that adipose tissue contains 22% fat-free mass in addition to fat mass. Therefore, the fat tissue mass in the present study was calculated by multiplying the FM by a factor of 1.282.
So it seem's like the factor 1.282 came the distinguishment between "adipose tissue" and "fat". Basically 1.282*fat cell mass = adipose tissue mass = "what people call bodyfat", so it's fine to just use the bf percentage directly.
After reading up on that paper, I quote: (bottom of page 54)
So it seem's like the factor 1.282 came the distinguishment between "adipose tissue" and "fat". Basically 1.282*fat cell mass = adipose tissue mass = "what people call bodyfat", so it's fine to just use the bf percentage directly.
The origin of the factor 1.282 is explained on pages 18 to 21. Only 78% of adipose tissue is fat. Bodyfat measurements therefore only capture 78% of adipose tissue. The remaining 22% (mostly water) is missing from these measurements (fat-free mass of adipose tissue). 78% multiplied by 1.282 is almost exactly 100%.
I have attempted to open up a similar discussion in Skeletal muscle mass - quantitive admiration of muscles https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/forum/thread/...
Natasha Broegger https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvp0BtCtHVZ
Device: InBody Height: 170cm (5'7) Muscle mass: 39.8kg (87.7lbs)
Second version of overview
I had often thought about how one could better compare girls with muscle. I found the idea of comparing muscle mass relative to height to be the fairest. So all I had to do was look for formulas that would help me with this. Finally I stumbled upon MMI.
The following information is required for the calculation: height, weight, (weight of the implants) and body fat percentage.
However, all values are rarely available at the same time. Therefore, I first calculated FMME values for a few cases and assigned them to their images at bodyspace.bodybuilding.com. These images with a calculated FMME value can later serve as a basis to estimate an FMME value for images of other athletes. Ideally, there would be a grid with comparison images for each box. In the following sketch, I have boxes with side lengths of 10 (for FMME values) and 2 (for body fat percentage).
The blue dots indicate cases where I have at least two comparison images for a person with a specific FMME value and body fat percentage. The extreme cases are ladymeag (https://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/permalink/...) and Katka Kyptova (https://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/photos/vie...).
The division into categories is of course quite rough. The category for bodybuilding athletes, for example, could start below 300, and the category for sporty girls below 150. The assignment to the top X% of the relatively most muscular women (say between 20 and 45 years) is only a playful guess.
In the following overview I have compiled selected (maximum) FMME values sorted by categories:
For the four female bodybuilders, I took information from wikipedia, herbiceps and bodyspace.bodybuilding and in most cases estimated the body fat percentage quite roughly.
For the Japanese female bodybuilders, I was able to use an Instagram post with very precise measurements for Yôko Shimizu; unfortunately, without a picture (https://www.instagram.com/p/ClYBIdvvXCP/; off-season). The remaining three FMME-value ranges are based on the entry lists of the tournaments, in which the height and weight of the athletes were stated. For the former national series champion Utako Mizuma, I assumed a body fat percentage between 8% and 13%, and for the other two between 10% and 15%.
I estimated FMME values of celebrities and others mainly based on the impression they gave in their pictures. For Queen Letizia I had initially assumed 130-150, but after looking at the pictures on this page I increased it to 160. For Brie Larson, I estimated 160-170, which was confirmed by a blog post (which estimated her body fat percentage). I watered it down to 155-175 and then expanded it to 180 for her later training improvements. I was most unsure about kittybitcosplay. At first I wanted to take 210-240 and then reduced it to 200-230.
(I suspect that the appearance (visible muscularity) changes most quickly between FMME values 140/150 and 200.)
So that's my first attempt at this: I calculated some FMME values, downloaded some pictures from bodyspace.bodybuilding and roughly estimated FMME values for some girls with muscles.
I haven't thought of any other applications yet. In another thread, someone asked whether a feature could be added to indicate muscularity/size (from 1 to 10). But I have my doubts that something like this could be solved so easily with FMME values. (Especially since in most cases only ranges of FMME values can be specified.)
What do you think of this FMME idea? Would you estimate the FMME value range differently for some girls with muscles? Do you have any ideas on how to visualize the values/value ranges? Is there anyone who can estimate body fat percentages well? (It would be very helpful for athletes in general and for Japanese athletes in particular.)