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I am not sure. but men have an advantage so I think if they tried very hard the average man could become more muscular than most women on here. apart from the most powerful ones like Amazonska or noof. building Biceps seem a lot easier for men. but most men don't have the willpower to work this hard so it's rare for a man to be as muscular as even the smallest women on here.
The problem with this question is that genetics play a huge part in how someone responds to strength training, especially when you are asking what is the absolute natty limit is. The same can also be said even if you are on PEDs (how you respond to PEDs is also very much influenced by genetics.) There is no way to pick a woman who is on here and say "this represents what a man can achieve naturally. And that's especially the case because you are comparing a natural man to an "enhanced" woman, and the physiological differences between how men and women (even those who are on gear) respond to strength training.
But if you still want to find a point of reference for "comparison or inspiration," honestly, your best bet is looking at natty-achievable male physiques. And even then, with how prominent fake natties are, that might be very hard to do.
Honestly there’s a lot of delusion here form the men here. The women on this site for the most part have ELITE genetics meaning that even you are a man most you will have average at best genetics.
Eg even if we all dedicated our time to sprinting none of us would be faster then Gabby Thomas.
Honestly I’d say the limit most men here could get to naturally would be someone like a Claudia Elizabeth
In terms of your own limits, I don't see how this applies.
Let's assume that any woman on here that you're comparing yourself to is on gear. Pretty safe assumption.
FBB's have a fundamentally different build than men. Generally shorter, slimmer joints, bigger hips, narrower shoulders. The goals are different, the body layout is different.
If you want to assess your own natty goals, then look at an amateur, low level natty male bodybuilding contest.
Look at the guys who compete but don't place high. That's realistic. The guys who win have usually done cycles in the past and are simply clean for the testing period.
If you're looking at girls, then I imagine it's to have some kind of perspective like "I could beat her naturally if I really tried," and I guess that's a perspective to take, but it's kind of gross.
Although yeah, honestly the really popular girls like Vladi and Lindmark and Gracie aren't that muscular at all in real terms. You could be a male in your early 20's with a few good years of training and have significantly more muscle size. But these girls aren't trying to be massive or win contests. They're pretty girls with beautiful muscular bodies who build them to appeal to guys like us and sell us content. And thank god for that.
The average man is 5'9 190 lbs so if he tried to build as much muscle mass as possible naturally he'll be bigger than 90% of the girls on here. Only someone who is tall and also heavily abusing gear would be able to get bigger than him. If he also takes steroids he will be bigger than 100% of them.
The average man is 5'9 190 lbs so if he tried to build as much muscle mass as possible naturally he'll be bigger than 90% of the girls on here. Only someone who is tall and also heavily abusing gear would be able to get bigger than him. If he also takes steroids he will be bigger than 100% of them.
Definitely not that simple. The average man also has a protruding gut and little to no gym knowledge. If it was as easy to be bigger then most of these fbbs half of this site would have stepped on stage . Instead a lot of guys here have hips wider then their shoulders
The average man is 5'9 190 lbs so if he tried to build as much muscle mass as possible naturally he'll be bigger than 90% of the girls on here. Only someone who is tall and also heavily abusing gear would be able to get bigger than him. If he also takes steroids he will be bigger than 100% of them.
The average man is fat lol.
Definitely not that simple. The average man also has a protruding gut and little to no gym knowledge. If it was as easy to be bigger then most of these fbbs half of this site would have stepped on stage . Instead a lot of guys here have hips wider then their shoulders
But the question was if the average man tried to "build up his muscle mass as much as possible" which would require him to learn the optimum workouts and nutrition to get there and then be consistent with it for a few years. By the end of it he will have gym knowledge and he will no longer be out of shape. The fact that he has natural testosterone to speed up the process and a much larger frame to fill than most women would definitely make it a lot easier for him to get bigger than most women on here.
But the question was if the average man tried to "build up his muscle mass as much as possible" which would require him to learn the optimum workouts and nutrition to get there and then be consistent with it for a few years. By the end of it he will have gym knowledge and he will no longer be out of shape. The fact that he has natural testosterone to speed up the process and a much larger frame to fill than most women would definitely make it a lot easier for him to get bigger than most women on here.
Yeah, this is the kind of scenario I was establishing with my original question.
Tia-Clair Toomey. The CrossFit athlete.
I saw her in person, and her build was distinctly masculine. I don’t mean that she looks like a man facially or with virilization… but that the proportions of her arms, pecs, lats have a distinctly masculine relation to her lower body.
It’s hard to detail, but I see a lot of FBBs and I’m well aware of how they look, and Toomey was just different.
None of this is negative in any way, she just has a distinct build because she’s a world class strength athlete. Different aesthetic than BB.
An average male won’t match her strength or endurance or conditioning, but I think it’s realistic for a natty young male to hit her muscle size and overall proportions with 3-5 years of solid training and diet.
Tia-Clair Toomey. The CrossFit athlete.
I saw her in person, and her build was distinctly masculine. I don’t mean that she looks like a man facially or with virilization… but that the proportions of her arms, pecs, lats have a distinctly masculine relation to her lower body.
It’s hard to detail, but I see a lot of FBBs and I’m well aware of how they look, and Toomey was just different.
None of this is negative in any way, she just has a distinct build because she’s a world class strength athlete. Different aesthetic than BB.
An average male won’t match her strength or endurance or conditioning, but I think it’s realistic for a natty young male to hit her muscle size and overall proportions with 3-5 years of solid training and diet.
There is no way that Tia is natty, though.
There is no way that Tia is natty, though.
Correct. As we both know, there are zero pros in CrossFit, bodybuilding, fitness, and most high paid professional sports who are strictly natty.
But having seen her, I think a serious and dedicated male in his 20s could naturally build muscles and overall proportions to her size in 3-5 years.
He could not achieve the amount of conditioning and leanness that she has naturally. So take her contest pics, add 15-20lb of fat, and remove the dbol pump and I think an average guy with solid training and diet could do it.
And this is purely looks.. I’m not saying he’ll be as strong or capable as her.
Partly asking this to determine my own limits haha.
And I'm stressing muscular physique rather than purely strength, weight & height, or how ripped one appears.
Essentially, I'm asking if an average guy tried to build up his muscle mass as much as possible (without steroids and with a decently low body fat percentage), who would be the largest girl that he could appear more muscular than.
For example, I don't believe that models like Vladislava Galagan or Kristina Zafirova would be the upper limit. However, what about a somewhat more muscular model like Melinda Lindmark or Dianna Blanchard at her peak?
Obviously, a good number are far too muscular for any natural guy to rival, like Nataliya Kuznetsova or Anastasia Leonova, but there has to be a middle ground somewhere.
And of course this might be silly to ask because a lot of these models are far, far shorter than the average guy, so they might still look tiny despite their musculature, but I wanted to ask anyways.