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"I clicked on this link hoping for hot muscular enbies and all I got was walls of text of people debating whether I'm allowed to exist."
I've never understood where this question of existence comes from. I can believe I'm Batman or a Tooth Fairy, I can be wrong and everyone else can know that I'm wrong but I still exist and my existence would not be questioned.
Because lots of people like discussing with non binary people are allowed to be non binary and I ain't a fan.
"I clicked on this link hoping for hot muscular enbies and all I got was walls of text of people debating whether I'm allowed to exist."
I don't get it either. Nor do I think it is an effective argument, and generally is one that is going to dissuade me more than convince. This time period, in Western societies especially, is the absolute best time period to be alive if one is a member of a non traditional group. The idea that people are consistently persecuted is ludicrous, and the discussion of whether non binary people should or should not be allowed on a website devoted to girls with muscle is not comparable to Cambodian death squads rounding people up and murdering them.
"I clicked on this link hoping for hot muscular enbies and all I got was walls of text of people debating whether I'm allowed to exist."
I don't get it either. Nor do I think it is an effective argument, and generally is one that is going to dissuade me more than convince. This time period, in Western societies especially, is the absolute best time period to be alive if one is a member of a non traditional group. The idea that people are consistently persecuted is ludicrous, and the discussion of whether non binary people should or should not be allowed on a website devoted to girls with muscle is not comparable to Cambodian death squads rounding people up and murdering them.
Yeah I mean that's not so hard to "get" though. Lots of groups claim victimhood, even if - statistically - they're doing way better than before.
I'll say that it's definitely not easy to be an LGBT person now, even if it's better than the oppressive discrimination of just 20 years ago.
The Cambodian death squad analogy just implies that any suffering short of that is somehow irrelevant. Like if you lose a leg and someone is like "AT LEAST IT'S JUST A LEG AND YOUR WHOLE BODY WASN'T MASHED UP AND CRUSHED!"
Come on now.
Feng Xie (Douyin ID: 80353188056 [https://www.douyin.com/user/MS4wLjABAAAAlw462...]
https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/2275762/ https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/2276144/ https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/2276156/
People on both Douyin and this site seem to be confused by their gender, but as you can see Feng's profile picture has the nonbinary flag (yellow, white, purple, black).
As I commented on the first video: "Nonbinary people, regardless of presentation or birth gender aren't women but whoever this is does seem to be more femme leaning."
Should muscular "enbies" be allowed on the site? Should they have a seperate section like trans women? How feminine do they have to be for Girlswithmuscle.com? I hope to hear some of your thoughts.
P.S Feng Xie is the only nonbinary person on the site I have seen so far but maybe this should be a thread for any others uploaded here.
None of these links works for me. Where can I find images of this person? I'm realy curious.
This site is ultimately called Girlswithmuscle, not Femininepeoplewithmuscle. Masculine/virilisied/butch women are all (rightly!) uploaded to the site because they still identify as women. Conversely, a nonbinary person, no matter how femminine, no matter what birth gender, no matter what genitalia, is still not a woman. That's not me making a political statement, that's just how being nonbinary works.
The central contradiction is that people are uploading and showing interest in these types of people, but they are not girls. The question then is should they be on the site at all, and if so, how?
a person is either a woman or a man, and this site is for women. self identification doesnt matter, biology does - individuals are always allowed to request their images to be removed from the site, however.
a person is either a woman or a man, and this site is for women. self identification doesnt matter, biology does - individuals are always allowed to request their images to be removed from the site, however.
If biology is the only thing that matters, how do you feel about me posting this "girl" right here. Let me give you a checklist:
This person was born female, has XY chromosomes, and has a vagina.
They're on a lot of testosterone, but every FBB is. Key difference is that transmen do pure test and they don't cycle or attempt to suppress virlization
They got a double mastectomy to have their boobs removed. Not hard to find FBB's with natural chests which are this flat though.
They have a typically male name and a short hairstyle.
Now, I'm not saying that this person belongs on Girlswithmuscle.com. I don't think that they do. I doubt they'd want to be here.
But it's worth noting that a lot more than biology goes into gender presentation.
If biology is the only thing that matters, how do you feel about me posting this "girl" right here. Let me give you a checklist:
This person was born female, has XY chromosomes, and has a vagina.
They're on a lot of testosterone, but every FBB is. Key difference is that transmen do pure test and they don't cycle or attempt to suppress virlization
They got a double mastectomy to have their boobs removed. Not hard to find FBB's with natural chests which are this flat though.
They have a typically male name and a short hairstyle.
Now, I'm not saying that this person belongs on Girlswithmuscle.com. I don't think that they do. I doubt they'd want to be here.
But it's worth noting that a lot more than biology goes into gender presentation.
So it's the usual "but what about..." argument, and a familiar "but what about this unusual case" argument. This individual does not validate trans women who would want to be on GWM any more than they invalidate trans men who wouldn't want to be on GWM.
So it's the usual "but what about..." argument, and a familiar "but what about this unusual case" argument. This individual does not validate trans women who would want to be on GWM any more than they invalidate trans men who wouldn't want to be on GWM.
It's not that unusual. There's about 500,000 transmale people in the United States right now. Pretty close to the population of Wyoming. Not far behind the population of Vermont. It's a decent number.
I find that they are always left out of the whole trans debate. Because trans women are more visible, people tend to forget that they're half of the equation too.
So outside of this website - and according to biology - do you feel totally comfortable calling this person a "woman?"
I'm honestly curious and this isn't a gotcha question. We rely on a ton of visual cues to perceive gender. I think that many people here have never even seen a muscular transgender man.
I find that they are always left out of the whole trans debate. Because trans women are more visible, people tend to forget that they're half of the equation too.
So outside of this website - and according to biology - do you feel totally comfortable calling this person a "woman?"
I'm honestly curious and this isn't a gotcha question. We rely on a ton of visual cues to perceive gender. I think that many people here have never even seen a muscular transgender man.
all this "trans" and "non-binary" discussion is really motivating me to....not visit this site anymore
all this "trans" and "non-binary" discussion is really motivating me to....not visit this site anymore
lol it’s literally one thread. Why are you taking the time to visit and to comment?
Why are you taking the time to visit and to comment?
just want to highlight how damaging these discussions are to the GWM vibe
Show us on the doll where this thread hurt you. It seems odd to freak out about the mere discussion of trans people when you’ll ogling women with 2 to 3x average male testosterone levels, but you do you.
Look I didn’t start it but it’s one thread in a forum of countless threads on a site of millions of pics.
Seems like it’s super easy to simply ignore this thread and keep your vibe, no?
Show us on the doll where this thread hurt you. It seems odd to freak out about the mere discussion of trans people when you’ll ogling women with 2 to 3x average male testosterone levels, but you do you.
Look I didn’t start it but it’s one thread in a forum of countless threads on a site of millions of pics.
Seems like it’s super easy to simply ignore this thread and keep your vibe, no?
you've convinced yourself this is an interesting, edgy topic. i can assure you it isn't. it's boring and tiresome. you think we're allk gay for admiring muscular women, ok great got it. no one cares
all this "trans" and "non-binary" discussion is really motivating me to....not visit this site anymore
Wouldn't that be a blessing.
Don't like trans muscle, don't look... it's quite simple.
One of the things that gives me so much peace is knowing your generation of small minded dickheads will die off before me and we will all be better for it.
you've convinced yourself this is an interesting, edgy topic. i can assure you it isn't. it's boring and tiresome. you think we're allk gay for admiring muscular women, ok great got it. no one cares
IDK dude you're the one here arguing with me. If it's boring, why don't you go elsewhere?
I find arm wrestling to be boring and tiresome. You don't see me complaining about it on the arm wrestling threads.
I never said that anyone is gay for liking muscular women. Quite the opposite. I don't think that guys are gay for liking trans women either.
However if you're very attracted to the transman I posted before.. despite the XY chromosomes and the vagina.. then yeah, good chance that you're gay.
IDK dude you're the one here arguing with me. If it's boring, why don't you go elsewhere?
I find arm wrestling to be boring and tiresome. You don't see me complaining about it on the arm wrestling threads.
I never said that anyone is gay for liking muscular women. Quite the opposite. I don't think that guys are gay for liking trans women either.
However if you're very attracted to the transman I posted before.. despite the XY chromosomes and the vagina.. then yeah, good chance that you're gay.
why in the world would i argue with someone so disassociated from reality? i get it, trans men binary surgically created vaginas are glorious and beautiful and anyone who doesn't think so is a close minded bigot who shopuld be arrested and kicked off the site. I AM AGREEING WITH YOU. still no one cares and you are damaging the site w these silly discussions.
It's not that unusual. There's about 500,000 transmale people in the United States right now. Pretty close to the population of Wyoming. Not far behind the population of Vermont. It's a decent number.
I find that they are always left out of the whole trans debate. Because trans women are more visible, people tend to forget that they're half of the equation too.
So outside of this website - and according to biology - do you feel totally comfortable calling this person a "woman?"
I'm honestly curious and this isn't a gotcha question. We rely on a ton of visual cues to perceive gender. I think that many people here have never even seen a muscular transgender man.
But it's also irrelevant. I've been taken for someone of Hispanic ethnicity a few times. It's interesting, but it doesn't make it true. Say there's a specifically black FBB website - "BGWM" - but one of them is a roided up Rachel Dolezal on that dark spray tan again. She doesn't get a pass to be on BGWM just for looking the part. Likewise some mulato who may not look it but does have black in her racial makeup would qualify despite appearances. Intersex individuals may pass for one or the other sex but that doesn't make them strictly male or female, or mean that they get to partake in either/or categories.
By BGWM do you mean Big Girls With Muscle, or, Butch Girls With Muscle, or, Bigamy Girls With Muscle, or Bi-Sexual Girls With Muscle?
But it's also irrelevant. I've been taken for someone of Hispanic ethnicity a few times. It's interesting, but it doesn't make it true. Say there's a specifically black FBB website - "BGWM" - but one of them is a roided up Rachel Dolezal on that dark spray tan again. She doesn't get a pass to be on BGWM just for looking the part. Likewise some mulato who may not look it but does have black in her racial makeup would qualify despite appearances. Intersex individuals may pass for one or the other sex but that doesn't make them strictly male or female, or mean that they get to partake in either/or categories.
I'm not debating intersex people here. I never was. Not sure where you're getting that from.
I was responding to a common talking point. That chromosomes and gender are fixed, immutable characteristics. In our kind of spaces, this is used to keep trans women out. The reasoning is that they are born as men, so no degree of hormones or surgery can make them women.
Okay, so if that's true, then the reverse has to be true as well. Someone born female, regardless of how much test she takes or how short her hair is or if she gets a masectomy or even body surgery.. she's still a woman. Forever. Right?
So looking at this person linked below, I have three questions:
https://ultimateperformance.com/testimonial/t...
1) Is she a woman in your eyes?
2) If you are a man and you find her attractive as is, does that mean you're straight? She does have a vagina and XY chromosomes. Is it hetero to be really into her?
3) As a woman with muscles, she would belong on this site, no? She's got some more virilization than other FBB's, but honestly, people like Eva Montgomery and Brooke Diesel aren't far off.
I'm not debating intersex people here. I never was. Not sure where you're getting that from.
You did say: This person was born female, has XY chromosomes, and has a vagina. Since normally XY is male and XX is female, I assumed you were referring to some genetic abnormality with this individual such as intersex or hermaphroditism.
1) Is she a woman in your eyes?
At first glance, stranger in a crowd, I would have assumed that she was a man; but that would have been my mistake. Knowing that this is a trans man, "he" is a woman in my eyes.
2) If you are a man and you find her attractive as is, does that mean you're straight? She does have a vagina and XY chromosomes. Is it hetero to be really into her?
Again, is this some individual with a genetic abnormality to have XY chromosomes but a female sex?
In any case, I do not have to be attracted to a woman to deem her a woman. There are a number of GWMs that I am indifferent to or repulsed by, but that does not mean they are not women. Conversely, me finding a man mimicking a woman to be attractive does not make him an actual woman.
3) As a woman with muscles, she would belong on this site, no? She's got some more virilization than other FBB's, but honestly, people like Eva Montgomery and Brooke Diesel aren't far off.
By my own standard of biology, I guess she would belong on this site; however, she would not care to be included for her own reasons. And, again conversely, a man wanting to be a part of GWM would not pass my biological standard no matter how good his mimicry game is.
This is all a very interesting study in (1) How many times can I split an hair, and (2) How many Angels can dance upon the sharp point of a common pin.
Personally, I would prefer to go with the concept of Tolerance. If someone believes that they are Female but born Male, that is fine with me. Of course, there will be obvious drawbacks to such an assertion since the individual will not have to deal with childbirth, menstrual pain and the miriad other issues that strike women exclusively. And such issues --- in the modern Internet World --- do not matter. So, it is, to me anyways, better to Tolerate such Belief Systems and allow them their very peculiar journey in Life.
I think most debate involves their incredulity of ideas like non-binary and tens upon tens of genders. Where exactly does it say that you're not allowed to exist?