Forum
>
General / Nonfiction
>
Thread
Log in |
Register
This is Sara Gavagan. She's a 19 (!!!) year old college soccer player. She's 5-7 160, and has visible abs with HUGE legs.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8MtVE1m/
She lifts for muscle, but she's ONLY freaking 19. Anyone wanna guess what she'd look like with 5-6 more years of serious hypertrophy training? It'll probably make you cope hard lmao.
Some of you are comparing the genetic potential of the ordinary 5-4 115 girl and trying to apply it to people/athletes who are in the top 1% of genetics. It's utterly stupid, but I'm not here to make it personal lmao. It's just hilarious. And yes, I'm aware that pretty much all bodybuilders use, but this is a different discussion. Some of you have worldviews that are simply outdated and illogical.
I mean just look at Serena Williams, another genetic beast who could never train for pure hypertrophy due to her sport.
This is Desi Johnson. She's 21 years old. Track athlete. 5-10 180-185 with abs. She lifts but does not train for bodybuilding.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8MtqpDf/
A few years of bodybuilding and she could very well reach 190-200+ lbs with abs. Sure most girls have terrible genetics for muscle, but some of you severely underestimate what some peoples' genetics are capable of. Most girls are also like 5-4 120 lbs, but there are plenty of outliers. It's hilarious but also sad to hear the denial. Almost like you haven't gone outside and seen the world. I've seen some black women specifically with insane genetics for building muscle. Keep coping though lmao.
Okay. Wow.
So agreed that she looks amazing. Couple questions:
1) Is this post meant to highlight what women can achieve naturally? As in... you think that this girl is totally natural?
2) If so.. then wow.
3) Real question: do you follow women's bodybuilding? Could you make a list of pros and amateurs who sit at 200lb "with abs"? If not, I can make it easy for you: this is going to be a VERY short list. And it will take way more than a few years and whatever light cycles this girl is doing to get there.
I would believe that Sarah is natural. There is nothing about her that pops. That’s pretty much the average soccer build if they care about dieting. I’ve seen more muscular.
I mean just look at Serena Williams, another genetic beast who could never train for pure hypertrophy due to her sport.
Some day we're going to look back at Serena Williams and marvel at our collective suspension of disbelief.
1) She's more muscular than any female tennis player ever. She's more muscular than many of the guys.
2) Her mass is especially concentrated in the high androgen receptor muscles of delts and traps. They respond really well to PED's
3) She put on this mass despite having a vegan diet since 2012 and constantly training with high intensity cardio. These would be two massive impediments to muscle growth for a male natty lifter. They'd be devastating for a female one.
4) Tennis is famous for in-competition testing with predictable scheduling. It's easy to game their system because it's supposed to be easy. Athletes aren't seen as cheaters unless they're caught.
Look, Serena is the highest paid female tennis player ever. The biggest winner. She has the most endorsements. She has an inspirational rags-to-riches story. And she broke through an enormous racial barrier. It's very possible that - PED's or not - she's the best female player that the sport has ever known.
But the idea that she's natural is just as ludicrous as thinking that Michael Jackson didn't get plastic surgery. With so much money and prestige on the line, she can afford the best doping doc on planet earth. Use can be scheduled and those tests can be easily beaten. No regulatory body wants to catch her. She brings huge positive attention to the sport. Her fall from grace would cause major harm to tennis as a whole.
But yeah.. FFS... just use your eyes.
Binary: what is your experience in strength sports and/or exercise science? Do you bodybuilder, powerlift, Olympic weightlift, CrossFit or so strongman at an actual competitive or someone high (not casual) level?
You noticed how all the people here who actually do the aforementioned activities are also explaining how prominent PED use is? We are around it and for some of us have actually used them. I’m not understanding why some here are so adamant at denying it. It really should do nothing with your fetish: using PEDs doesn’t distinguish the hard work and effort it takes to build those physiques. What we are advocating for is realistic views on what is achievable natty versus enhanced
A reminder that Lance Armstrong used and wasn’t jacked. I’m sure Tiger and Lebron uses too.
I mean just look at Serena Williams, another genetic beast who could never train for pure hypertrophy due to her sport.
Some day we're going to look back at Serena Williams and marvel at our collective suspension of disbelief.
1) She's more muscular than any female tennis player ever. She's more muscular than many of the guys.
2) Her mass is especially concentrated in the high androgen receptor muscles of delts and traps. They respond really well to PED's
3) She put on this mass despite having a vegan diet since 2012 and constantly training with high intensity cardio. These would be two massive impediments to muscle growth for a male natty lifter. They'd be devastating for a female one.
4) Tennis is famous for in-competition testing with predictable scheduling. It's easy to game their system because it's supposed to be easy. Athletes aren't seen as cheaters unless they're caught.
Look, Serena is the highest paid female tennis player ever. The biggest winner. She has the most endorsements. She has an inspirational rags-to-riches story. And she broke through an enormous racial barrier. It's very possible that - PED's or not - she's the best female player that the sport has ever known.
But the idea that she's natural is just as ludicrous as thinking that Michael Jackson didn't get plastic surgery. With so much money and prestige on the line, she can afford the best doping doc on planet earth. Use can be scheduled and those tests can be easily beaten. No regulatory body wants to catch her. She brings huge positive attention to the sport. Her fall from grace would cause major harm to tennis as a whole.
But yeah.. FFS... just use your eyes.
Lmao Serena was jacked when she was 18 years old playing tennis. You think she used roids for hypertrophy while playing tennis?? Added bulk would actually hurt her as she got older in that game. Lmao, utterly delusional bro.
Let's look at another girl Holly Holm, ufc fighter. Utterly jacked, doesn't train for bodybuilding. Ufc fighters are tested like hell. Some of you really don't understand genetic outliers. Comparing normal girls to these women us like comparing Chris Rock to LeBron James.
Desi is not natty lmao
Hahahaha cope. She competed in track through college as a 19-20 year old, they are tested vigorously. Shit there are posts on Reddit natty or not where everyone agrees she's probably natty, and they say everyone is on juice. Unfortunately this site can't grasp genetics for some reason, lots of cope and denial. Antiquated sheltered worldviews. Her body has also stayed pretty consistent for three years now
Okay. Wow.
So agreed that she looks amazing. Couple questions:
1) Is this post meant to highlight what women can achieve naturally? As in... you think that this girl is totally natural?
2) If so.. then wow.
3) Real question: do you follow women's bodybuilding? Could you make a list of pros and amateurs who sit at 200lb "with abs"? If not, I can make it easy for you: this is going to be a VERY short list. And it will take way more than a few years and whatever light cycles this girl is doing to get there.
No. This post is meant to highlight that there ARE genetic outliers who can achieve this naturally, and she is one of them (keep coping). There are people in top 1% of muscle building genetics where the normal rules don't really apply. Think LeBron James at 20, but for females.
I would believe that Sarah is natural. There is nothing about her that pops. That’s pretty much the average soccer build if they care about dieting. I’ve seen more muscular.
Yet she's 160 lbs with huge legs and only 19 years old. Lol. She could easily add 10-15 lbs of muscle in 5-6 years if she really wanted to (99.9% of girls don't want to though). Like you said there are many girls like this (makes my point stronger)..... Almost all of them don't really go into bodybuilding or try to get bigger. If they did, a lot of people in this thread would be very surprised.
No. This post is meant to highlight that there ARE genetic outliers who can achieve this naturally, and she is one of them (keep coping). There are people in top 1% of muscle building genetics where the normal rules don't really apply. Think LeBron James at 20, but for females.
What exactly do you mean by "coping?"
I'm a bodybuilder myself. I'm friends with quite a lot of them (male and female). I use PED's and love them. I'm all about them honestly. I don't equate them to "cheating" in the world of bodybuilding and fitness. They're literally necessary equipment. So when I say that girls aren't natty, this isn't a dig at them. I'm not tearing them down, I'm just acknowledging reality.
Okay so instead of playing "what if" with Desi becoming a 200lb natural bodybuilding champion.. how about we look at the actual women's natural bodybuilding champions. You could start here:
https://www.worldnaturalbb.com/category/wnbf-...
Could you take a moment to direct me to the "200lb with abs" section?
And yeah, anyone who has looked at (1) women and (2) women who play tennis, would realize that Serena isn't natural. But people insisted Lance Amstrong was until it was suddenly proven that he wasn't. And Serena is 100x the celebrity that he is. They'll most likely never be a reckoning on it.
I do agree with you on genetics for her. The smart move is to juice for speed, strength, and endurance. Her upper body muscles respond really well to this stuff, and she's bulked up as a result. This isn't ideal for her as it most likely slows her down. And it's a red flag to anyone who critically observes her, but not enough to derail the suspension of disbelief.
Other girls in tennis are probably on very similar cocktails and simply show it less in their physique. Due to genetics.
Could a woman with great genetics, a bulletproof hypertrophy program and a good bodybuilding coach be naturally as jacked or even a bit more jacked than Serena? Probably. Could she do it on a vegan diet and a heavy work schedule and massive amounts of cardio via constant tennis matches? Hell no.
For the record: I don't care. She's a great athlete and a good representative. With all the crap that female athletes have to put up with (sexual harassment, miserably low pay, lack of respect) society should let them take all the freaking roids that they want to.
Hahahaha cope. She competed in track through college as a 19-20 year old, they are tested vigorously. Shit there are posts on Reddit natty or not where everyone agrees she's probably natty, and they say everyone is on juice. Unfortunately this site can't grasp genetics for some reason, lots of cope and denial. Antiquated sheltered worldviews. Her body has also stayed pretty consistent for three years now
You might want to do a little research on 'testing'.
Did you just use reddit consensus as evidence?
I don't want to be mean but jeez man, we can tell you don't have any experience and don't know what you're talking about.
It is harder to fail a test then to pass them.
If you have the right people doing your scheduling.
If you get popped that’s on you. Most PED users with a good team will not fail a test.
Lmao. The emotion and delusion, hilarious. There are much better forums with much smarter people talking about this stuff. But my work here is done. Enjoy the circle jerk of ignorance and ego (and lack of reality). Keep cope alive.
r/iamverysmart
I'll see you there.
It is harder to fail a test then to pass them.
If you have the right people doing your scheduling.
If you get popped that’s on you. Most PED users with a good team will not fail a test.
I know anumber of people who are involved in the testing system here in Australia, as well as a number of athletes from various sports including bodybuilding and powerlifting. All the talk about testing is just that, talk. Even the highest profile athletes don't get tested that often. One powerlifter I know has been competeing for over 15 years and has only been tested 3 times in international competitions and once off season, last year after not competing for a couple of years due to the Australian Powerlifting federation's internal collapse. Another lady I know competed in powerlifting on and off for more than 20 years and as a bodybuilder for 10 years, never tested. What makes it even funnier in her case, she was trained by a well known local supplier and infact herself was charged with possession of steroids by the police while competeing as a powerlifter. She was using the entire time, btw she set world records when she was 16. Yes she was on gear.
"Keep cope alive" is pretty funny NGL. I'm going to use that.
I'll say that these Natty or Not debates often turn into a complete s**tshow but I've been enjoying the discourse here. I feel that a few of us are on the same page, and that's rare. It's usually people shouting "EVERYONE IS NATTY!!" or "STEROIDS CAUSE INSTANT MUSCLES!"
It's remarkable how accessible PED's are, yet how ignorant so many laypeople are of them. I suspect that it's a bit generational too. I'm well into my 40s, but I often workout with people in their 20's. They're far more comfortable and aware of PED's.
"Keep cope alive" is pretty funny NGL. I'm going to use that.
I'll say that these Natty or Not debates often turn into a complete s**tshow but I've been enjoying the discourse here. I feel that a few of us are on the same page, and that's rare. It's usually people shouting "EVERYONE IS NATTY!!" or "STEROIDS CAUSE INSTANT MUSCLES!"
It's remarkable how accessible PED's are, yet how ignorant so many laypeople are of them. I suspect that it's a bit generational too. I'm well into my 40s, but I often workout with people in their 20's. They're far more comfortable and aware of PED's.
I'm sandwiched right in the middle of decades at 36 between you and who you workout with. Like you, it's amazing at how while PEDs are more accessible (for anyone who is clueless on where to get them, spend some time at a hardcore lifting gym and get to know the people there and you'll find out where to get them relatively easy,) and yet so many people are ignorant to them. I think it also shows which one of us are actual lifters ourselves and those who are not.
I really wish more people were knowledgeable about PEDs and what they do and who uses them and why because I think that would cut down all the grift that plagues the fitness industry. I LOVE fitness, and I love sharing that passion with others along with sharing my own story of how much weight I lost (over 40 lbs) and how I kept it off. But I fucking HATE all the ads for bullshit supplements, bullshit products like toe spaces, and gigantic chucklefucks like Liver King who prey on the young and ignorant by claiming they got their physique naturally and that they need to only eat bull testicles and whatever supplements he liked hawking. It pisses me off because I struggled with body dysmorphia for a long time that was magnified by believing that I was a failure for putting in all this effort while not looking anywhere close to the influencers who adamantly claimed that they were natural. If people were more educated, I don't think there would be as much bullshit.
I'm sandwiched right in the middle of decades at 36 between you and who you workout with. Like you, it's amazing at how while PEDs are more accessible (for anyone who is clueless on where to get them, spend some time at a hardcore lifting gym and get to know the people there and you'll find out where to get them relatively easy,) and yet so many people are ignorant to them. I think it also shows which one of us are actual lifters ourselves and those who are not.
I really wish more people were knowledgeable about PEDs and what they do and who uses them and why because I think that would cut down all the grift that plagues the fitness industry. I LOVE fitness, and I love sharing that passion with others along with sharing my own story of how much weight I lost (over 40 lbs) and how I kept it off. But I fucking HATE all the ads for bullshit supplements, bullshit products like toe spaces, and gigantic chucklefucks like Liver King who prey on the young and ignorant by claiming they got their physique naturally and that they need to only eat bull testicles and whatever supplements he liked hawking. It pisses me off because I struggled with body dysmorphia for a long time that was magnified by believing that I was a failure for putting in all this effort while not looking anywhere close to the influencers who adamantly claimed that they were natural. If people were more educated, I don't think there would be as much bullshit.
Omg cope much bro?!? Keep coping!
Haha no just kidding... really well said and I'd agree totally. PED's have their costs but they are objectively quite safe if used correctly. If there wasn't this ridiculous stigma around them, then grifters like Liver King would never have a leg to stand on. Why eat a ton of raw liver and other garbage when Winstrol exists?
This is Desi Johnson. She's 21 years old. Track athlete. 5-10 180-185 with abs. She lifts but does not train for bodybuilding.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8MtqpDf/
A few years of bodybuilding and she could very well reach 190-200+ lbs with abs. Sure most girls have terrible genetics for muscle, but some of you severely underestimate what some peoples' genetics are capable of. Most girls are also like 5-4 120 lbs, but there are plenty of outliers. It's hilarious but also sad to hear the denial. Almost like you haven't gone outside and seen the world. I've seen some black women specifically with insane genetics for building muscle. Keep coping though lmao.