Forum
>
General / Nonfiction
>
Thread
Log in |
Register
I really don’t understand this attitude. I’m just in a discussion with someone that Mal O’Brien of CrossFit is on gear (the occasion being she withdrew from this years Games) and he doesn’t think she’s on gear.
There are claims on the Internet about beating PED tests by retiring just before they were going to be administered, and then “unretiring” after the metabolites had cleared their systems. But the people ostensibly trying to catch PED users (like WADA and the Crossfit organization) read the Internet too. In Crossfit, you can’t “unretire.”
O’Brien’s statement about withdrawing from the 2023 Crossfit Games semifinals doesn’t say anything about retiring from the sport. Maybe she will do that eventually. Besides, she’s been beating the Crossfit testing program for 6 years, or Crossfit has been suppressing positive test results because she’s a “star.” So if we're supposed to conclude that she withdrew from the Games semifinals to avoid a positive test for the stuff she's been getting away with for 6 years, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
A recent article on the Internet discussed high attrition rate among champions in the teen divisions (O’Brien finished well but never one in her four years in the 14–15 and 16–17 divisions) and suggested that burnout is a feature among those who start competing at a young age. Just shortly before O’Brien’s withdrawal, I saw an interview in which she said she likes coffee but was limiting herself to one cup a day because she was working out three times a day. That could burn anybody out.
Haley Adams, who won the 16–17 division in 2018 and finished between 4th and 9th in the adult women division, 2019–2022, withdrew from further games competition earlier this year, citing, among other things, a struggle with anorexia. Before the Open, Kristi Eramo O’Connell announced that neither she nor her husband would be competing this year. In 6 Games appearances in 7 years (2016–2022) O’Connel had finished between 8th and 13th. Thus they had been beating the Crossfit PED tests or Crossfit had been lying about the results for them for 5–7 years.
LOL! Such consternation on page 12 over the possibility that someone, somewhere, might consider the possibility that somewhere there is a fit, strong woman who doesn’t use PEDs! I didn’t actually, in my recent posts, suggest myself that such women might exist somewhere; I did point out that it is impossible to verify the accuracy and reliability of the photo evaluation method for making definitive determinations of PED use.
The simple definitive statements often found here, that all Crossfitters, all Olympic athletes, all “fitness influencers,” and sometimes everyone in some other categories (like all female athletes), are PED users, do, by themselves, raise questions and leave a lot unexplained. I don’t think this is the place to discuss them all or provide the missing explanations. I might start a separate topic for that discussion, if indeed ordinary registered users like me can do that and I can figure out how. If I do, I won’t be posing questions that can be answered by personal insults.
I never even took Psych 101 in college, so I won’t practice psychoanalysis without a license on the shocked and amazed posters on the previous page. They might want to get out of this echo chamber more; if they did, they would find that “all Crossfitters use PEDs” and “all Olympic athletes use PEDs” is not generally known, especially by the athletes and Crossfitters who think they aren’t using, even though we know here that they must be.
ive heard this multiple times, but PED testing is less about timing and more about how smart/good your team is. good teams beat tests all the time. so, yeah, it's possible that she beat all the other tests and everything went well, and then this time around failed a self-test or ran into some other related obstacles that leads to a withdrawal.
no one is talking about retiring from the sport, but dropping out a half week out from the competition is odd timing, to say the least.
but this isn't restricted to athletes. people who may or may not find themselves in a bit of hot water resign all the time before the boiling starts, this is not uncommon.
also, there's long been a string of pops in crossfit of "fringe" athletes who were maybe big enough names for someone who follows crossfit to know, but never one of the top names. gotta have a sacrificial lamb to show that you're actually playing by the rules.
if you pay attention to some of the language that younger fitness influencers are using, I'm personally hearing a lot more of "i'm natty right now". if you've used at all, you're not natty, even if you're not cycling.
i just don't understand why it's so unbelievable that someone at the top of the sport is using. you must also think Rich Froning wasn't on juice, or any crossfit athlete. i find it incredibly unlikely that in Mal they managed to find one teenager who is not only better than her age group, but threatens to make it to the top of the sport while being 100% natural while all of these other athletes cycle gear.
the purse is $350k. for most that is life changing money. the risk is worth it, and more do it than you think.
I mean Lance Armstrong never failed a test till yonks after hed crushed cycling for like 10 years lol. This whole testing argument is so comically junk. Instead of linking giant articles Winstanley, you could just use your eyes an basic common sense that boulder shouldered jacked up chicks who are also shredded by normal standards...are on gear. And just move on.
the purse is $350k. for most that is life changing money. the risk is worth it, and more do it than you think.
This. Especially when it comes to athletes where milliseconds, nanoseconds, make the difference.
i also want to add (as i realized this brushing my teeth lol)-- could you IMAGINE the scandal if she did test positive publicly?
for her, it would be embarrassing, yes. but she's been under Mat Fraser since she was 17. So that would call into question his coaching, and possibly that both Mat and her parents, and others around them were complicit in giving a minor PEDs.
i also want to add (as i realized this brushing my teeth lol)-- could you IMAGINE the scandal if she did test positive publicly?
for her, it would be embarrassing, yes. but she's been under Mat Fraser since she was 17. So that would call into question his coaching, and possibly that both Mat and her parents, and others around them were complicit in giving a minor PEDs.
After busting Ricky Garard and Emily Abbott (originally wrote Rolfe, that was my mistake), I guarantee you that you will NEVER see another top finisher, poster boy/girl get popped for PEDs. CrossFit will bust the mid-lower tier athletes as a means of “showing” that they care about having “clean” competitive field, but you’ll never see someone like Tia, Annie, Justin, Mal or Noah ever test positive.
I’m convinced that Kari Pearce’s sudden retirement was due to getting caught and basically being forced to retire.
When PED use is common among "social" athletes, be it crossfit, football, martial arts, boxing, swimming or even simply gym goers, you would have to be either niave or incredibly stupid to think anyone who actually makes money from their sport is going to be 100% natural. To say that "Oh, insert athlete's nam, has never tested positive" is missing the point. Remember EPO was around for many years before it was able to be detected with testing. Likewise, who's to say the current drug testing regime can detect certain SARMS?
The biggest doper in the history of professional sport, Lance Armstrong, has never tested positive. It's beyond me how more than a decade later, people STILL struggle to wrap their head around this fact. If the most targeted athlete of all time has been able to beat the system for his entire career, what are the odds people who are subjected to less scrutiny somehow are 100% PED-free, while competing in an organization that sells a product no less?
IDK in the scope of our community and this website, I think that it's akin to liking a stripper and refusing to believe that she could ever have a boyfriend or a husband.
Being "natural" and honest is part of the attraction narrative that they've built up in their minds for these women and the reality and frank necessity of PED use just goes against that.
After busting Ricky Garard and Emily Rolfe, [ORIGINAL MESSAGE EDITED] I guarantee you that you will NEVER see another top finisher, poster boy/girl get popped for PEDs. CrossFit will bust the mid-lower tier athletes as a means of “showing” that they care about having “clean” competitive field, but you’ll never see someone like Tia, Annie, Justin, Mal or Noah ever test positive.
I’m convinced that Kari Pearce’s sudden retirement was due to getting caught and basically being forced to retire.
Pearce competed on a team at Wodapalooza in January of this year (2023). ISTR that Wodapoalooza only became a "sanctioned" event recently (this year or maybe last year) and that competitors there are subject to drug testing, but I couldn't find any confirmation of that in as much time as I had to search for it right now.
How much is your "guarantee" worth?
Emily Rolfe? When was she "busted" and for what? Duck-Duck-Go and (when that didn't find anything) Google searches on "Emily Rolfe" with and without the additional keywords "test" "drug" or "PED" can't find any mention of anything of the sort. She withdrew from the 2022 Games after a well-publicized injury in an early event. She competed in the 2023 Crossfit Open, finished 28th in the world in the Quarterfinals, and she's on the competitor list for the North America West semifinal.
Pearce competed on a team at Wodapalooza in January of this year (2023). ISTR that Wodapoalooza only became a "sanctioned" event recently (this year or maybe last year) and that competitors there are subject to drug testing, but I couldn't find any confirmation of that in as much time as I had to search for it right now.
How much is your "guarantee" worth?
Emily Abbott. I’m sorry, that was who I was referencing, not Rolfe. Don’t know why I wrote Rolfe’s name instead. I’ll edit my original post.
Competing in the casual WZA team event in a non games qualifier doesn’t really mean anything.
After busting Ricky Garard and Emily Abbott (originally wrote Rolfe, that was my mistake), I guarantee you that you will NEVER see another top finisher, poster boy/girl get popped for PEDs. CrossFit will bust the mid-lower tier athletes as a means of “showing” that they care about having “clean” competitive field, but you’ll never see someone like Tia, Annie, Justin, Mal or Noah ever test positive.
Garard was disqualified at the 2017 Games after finishing 3rd--certainly a "top" finish. Abbott had competed from 2014 to 2017, finishing 35th, 25th, 20th, and 19th--not exactly "top" finishes. She finished in the top 5 at her regional in 2018 but was disqualified from the Games before they began. A year later, Anna Fragkou competed at the Games, finished 9th, but then was disqualified afterwards (I don't know whether the positive test was at the Games or a delayed regional result). When did your guarantee begin, and what's a "top finisher"? I think there have been regional, or now, "semifinal" competitors caught and banned but I don't think any of them had qualified for the Games, and I don't recall anyone being caught and banned at the Games since Fragkou. I can find a variety of possible explanations for that, some of which are excluded from this Web site.
In 2008 Russia invaded a former U.S.S.R. republic, then recognized internationally as an independent sovereign state and a member of the United Nations. Putin justified the invasion by alleging mistreatment of an ethnic minority by the majority. By any chance did you guarantee the Ukrainian government that having done that once, Putin would never do it again? that Ukraine, a former U.S.S.R. republic, recognized internationally as an independent sovereign state and a member of the United Nations, with an ethnic minority, would never be invaded by Russia, so strong defense forces would not be needed in border areas like the Donbass and Crimea?
Usually, we use past behavior to predict what people will (or at least might) do, not to guarantee what they won't do. Indeed, some convicts never commit another crime after release from prison, but many do.
Garard was still a teenager in 2017. He was banneed from competition for 4 years. He competed again in 2022 and finshed 3rd at the Games. He was 7th in the Open and 1st in the quarterfinals this year, but has withdrawn from the 2023 Games because of a shoulder injury. (I don't know if there were witnesses or there is video, as there was for the injuries of Emily Rolfe, Brooke Wells, and Julie Foucher.)
Very interesting debate. But still,after all is said, what concrete evidence do we have for any of these 'conjectures'?
Garard was disqualified at the 2017 Games after finishing 3rd--certainly a "top" finish. Abbott had competed from 2014 to 2017, finishing 35th, 25th, 20th, and 19th--not exactly "top" finishes. She finished in the top 5 at her regional in 2018 but was disqualified from the Games before they began. A year later, Anna Fragkou competed at the Games, finished 9th, but then was disqualified afterwards (I don't know whether the positive test was at the Games or a delayed regional result). When did your guarantee begin, and what's a "top finisher"? I think there have been regional, or now, "semifinal" competitors caught and banned but I don't think any of them had qualified for the Games, and I don't recall anyone being caught and banned at the Games since Fragkou. I can find a variety of possible explanations for that, some of which are excluded from this Web site.
In 2008 Russia invaded a former U.S.S.R. republic, then recognized internationally as an independent sovereign state and a member of the United Nations. Putin justified the invasion by alleging mistreatment of an ethnic minority by the majority. By any chance did you guarantee the Ukrainian government that having done that once, Putin would never do it again? that Ukraine, a former U.S.S.R. republic, recognized internationally as an independent sovereign state and a member of the United Nations, with an ethnic minority, would never be invaded by Russia, so strong defense forces would not be needed in border areas like the Donbass and Crimea?
Usually, we use past behavior to predict what people will (or at least might) do, not to guarantee what they won't do. Indeed, some convicts never commit another crime after release from prison, but many do.
Garard was still a teenager in 2017. He was banneed from competition for 4 years. He competed again in 2022 and finshed 3rd at the Games. He was 7th in the Open and 1st in the quarterfinals this year, but has withdrawn from the 2023 Games because of a shoulder injury. (I don't know if there were witnesses or there is video, as there was for the injuries of Emily Rolfe, Brooke Wells, and Julie Foucher.)
Is there a point hidden somewhere in that word salad?
Is there a point hidden somewhere in that word salad?
"Usually, we use past behavior to predict what people will (or at least might) do, not to guarantee what they won't do."
Gatsby28 wrote "After busting Ricky Garard and Emily Abbott ... I guarantee you that you will NEVER see another top finisher, poster boy/girl get popped for PEDs."
They did it once, so they're guaranteed not to do it ever again. Does that sound like a good prediction to you?
Conversation in Madison, Wisconsin, August 2023:
Gatsby28: Ricky Garard was popped for PEDs in 2017 so you should use whatever you want. I can guarantee that even if they catch you they won't announce it or sanction you for it.
Tia-Claire Toomey-Orr and Annie þorisdottír (in unison): What?
Toomey-Orr: If they sanctioned him, why wouldn't they sanction us?
þoridsdottír: Doesn't that prove that they will sanction anybody?
What should Gatsby28 say?
The actual point is missed in this debate. It's not claimed that the women are not on juice. The point is that there are naturals who are not on juice.
We are also not talking about behemoths. Rather natural fitness/figure type natural looking women.
The actual point is missed in this debate. It's not claimed that the women are not on juice. The point is that there are naturals who are not on juice.
We are also not talking about behemoths. Rather natural fitness/figure type natural looking women.
Do you know what “natural fitness/figure type natural looking women” look like? Not even sure what that means lol.
The actual point is missed in this debate. It's not claimed that the women are not on juice. The point is that there are naturals who are not on juice.
We are also not talking about behemoths. Rather natural fitness/figure type natural looking women.
It's not a debate, I don't know what the debate is?
It's possible for any woman to be on PEDs and you can't tell by their appearance. The more lean muscle mass they have and/or the faster they have developed, -generally- increases the chance they are using PEDs.
Unless you are the woman herself, you can not be certain. It's all speculation.
still ahs boobs, isn't crazy vascular, still plenty of bodyfat. she could be using but could also be natty. gotta remember shes posing too
Is she natty? She claimed she is. She become like that in a year before she was skinny af 😂
I saw her "before" picture, and her gaining that much size in one year is pretty sus.
Also, I believe that one of the biggest signs of a fake natty is someone who goes out of their way to insist that they are natty. I personally know a lot of lifters, both natty and enhanced, within my social circle, and nobody that was truly natural ever emphasized that they are natty.
So I'm gonna say not natty.
A lot of girls who claim to be natural are juiced up. Some examples: Sunny Andrews, Marissa Andrews, Anna Mroczkowska, Ashton Penney, Seda Davoyan, Dorota Ogonowska ... and many more.
A lot of girls who are accused of not natural are actually natties. Some examples: Ashley Entrekin, Natalia Ejsmont, Yuliya Manuilovich, Juliana Defarias, Audreana Cornelissen, Taylor Fletcher ... and many more.