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Many of the women pictured on this site inject male hormones on a regular basis in order to change their physical apparence, yet any discussion about gender gets some people in their feelings lol
So, I'm not offended, but it is my position that people have the right to self-identify as "men" or "women" if they wish to use those simple terms.
Bingo!
Many of the women pictured on this site inject male hormones on a regular basis in order to change their physical apparence, yet any discussion about gender gets some people in their feelings lol
Honestly this right here is why I was interested in asking this question. This is a liminal space in the gender binary but it seems to be mostly populated by cis men. I think it’s a really fascinating sociological phenomenon.
What kind of shit is this?
100000000000% This cis stuff is nonsense. Men women That's it!
In all seriousness, the addition of the term CIS bothers me. If trans people want to join the club then welcome. I don't even require someone to identify themselves as trans anything. Just be what you want to be, but don't go around adding subdivisions when it's not necessary.
I thought I was understanding their conversations correctly, and only a man could be a trans woman and only a woman could be a trans man (not accounting for intersexed, of course). But then at some point, that belief became offensive to them and I was told that referring to a trans woman as a man - was a grave offense of the highest order. I'm not talking about saying to the trans woman "You're a man!", I'm talking about simple, non-accusatory or judgmental questions or statements like, "What was life like when you were a boy/girl?", etc. The vocal gatekeepers don't want those questions asked, because the only answer now is supposed to be that he/she/they was NEVER said thing, that they'd always been what they are now.
Confused yet? Or just exhausted? lol
I'm a male man. A trans man is a female man. We are not the same. And that's OK. I think it's perfectly acceptable for the female man to refer to himself as a trans man or any other name he feels is applicable.
"I am a non-trans man" and "I'm a cisgender man" mean exactly the same thing.
The term cisgender is equally as accurate and non offensive as homo sapiens or heterosexual. It's a real word with a straightforward definition. There is really no reason to get so upset. Most animals and plants exhibit all kinds of different male/female combinations, from hermaphroditic animals and intersex to plants that self fertilize. We are just another type of animal, I don't know why people would think the rules of nature don't apply to humans. It might be simpler and less scary to believe that there are only two genders, but the sex and gender spectrums are a biological fact, regardless of how uncomfortable that makes you. No one denies that there are a spectrum of sexual orientations anymore, gender is the same way. Biology is usually a bell curve, not two rigid choices. Anyone that tells you that there are men and women and that's it has obviously never come across chicks with dicks on the porn sites. Not saying I'm into that but take one look and tell me "there are only two choices" with a straight face. The inclusion of others in a poll does not mean you are being excluded. You would think a community that is as misunderstood and ridiculed as female muscle lovers would understand the value of inclusion.
Honestly this right here is why I was interested in asking this question. This is a liminal space in the gender binary but it seems to be mostly populated by cis men. I think it’s a really fascinating sociological phenomenon.
I’m glad you asked this question (it’s the most interesting poll that I’ve seen here, in my opinion). As you say, the sociological phenomena highlighted in the associated discussion is fascinating!
AMAZED that this topic is not locked yet. Kinda tells you where we are, and what this movement is really about.
It might be simpler and less scary to believe that there are only two genders, but the sex and gender spectrums are a biological fact, regardless of how uncomfortable that makes you.
Biologically, you're either male, female or intersex. I wouldn't call that a spectrum.
💯 Just facts. A male born with an extra x-chromosome is still male. A male with an extra y-chromosome is still male. A female with an extra x-chromosome is still female. Could there be other primary, biological sex classifications in the future? Sure! But do they exist today? Not to our collective knowledge.
As for gender, it's kind of a made up concept anyway, popularised by feminists. There really is no factual information on whether it's a spectrum or not.
I disagree. Yes, it's "made up" - fine, we agree that (apart from giving birth) humans decided these things - but the concept of gender has been around since our hunter-gatherer days. This is not a modern or post-modern invention.
Are there not some male "men" who are more gatherer than hunter? And are there now some female women who are more hunter than gatherer? These realities have existed for as long as there have been humans.
A "gender" spectrum does exist and does so within the framework of a biological sex binary (m/f/i), but I understand that those who've never observed the spectrum might not believe in it.
AMAZED that this topic is not locked yet. Kinda tells you where we are, and what this movement is really about.
Please tell me what you think the movement is about? I’d also like to point out this all started because people started coming here and attacking the poll, not the other way around.
I am with RndmDisclaimer re "movement". I too am curious to know what this "movement" is?
AMAZED that this topic is not locked yet. Kinda tells you where we are, and what this movement is really about.
I definitely agree with you.
Just one guy's opinion, but I think that's a little unfair. Mods/admin are allowing us to have a conversation as long as we're respectful and don't try to bully one another. Sure, OP revealed he's on that thang. Whatever - those guys are everywhere and they're probably not your drinking buddies, but they have friends of their own. I have my way of thinking and of course I'm right, but ((their)) insistence that I adopt their terminology and definitions as my own has no real bearing on my day-to-day existence...mostly because I'm a male man.
They're 100% wrong about males competing vs females in sex-segregated sports, but apart from that, they're virtually inconsequential.
Please tell me what you think the movement is about? I’d also like to point out this all started because people started coming here and attacking the poll, not the other way around.
"Attacked"? Yeah, no hyperbole there. 😂
You elected to exclude "men" and "women" from YOUR poll. That's your privilege granted by the forum admin, but don't try to play innocent little victim here. This reply is not an attack on you - you're just being intellectually dishonest.
Just interesting how the people who got the most to say about how this site should be ran also have contributed the least. POST PICTURES NOT OPINIONS!!! If you don't bring anything to the table than stfu about what you gotta eat
"Attacked"? Yeah, no hyperbole there. 😂
You elected to exclude "men" and "women" from YOUR poll. That's your privilege granted by the forum admin, but don't try to play innocent little victim here. This reply is not an attack on you - you're just being intellectually dishonest.
For the final time, man and woman are included. This isn't an issue of inclusion, it's an issue of logic, of definitions. 'All bachelors are unmarried men' is true by definition. All non-trans men are cis men, by definition. There is literally nothing wrong with being cis. At all. And considering that you are a man and, I am guessing, that you are not trans, you would be a cis man, by definition.
I made this poll because I wanted to know how many people were trans and not trans on this site to satisfy my own (and possibly others') curiosity. There is no ideology, no motivation to malign, marginalize, or reprimand anyone for their beliefs or identity.
And yeah, people have said get this BS off of here, calling it woke or accusing me of having main character syndrome. So yeah, I'd say that's attacked! To impugn my character for using widely accepted terminology is, in my estimation, an extreme overreaction. Why is everyone so upset? They're just words. If you don't like it, just stop commenting and go to literally anywhere else on this site. No one is forcing you to be here.
I guess I just don’t understand what your problem is? Man is represented here. Cis is a prefix denoting that you are not trans. It would be the same as if I said “non-trans man”. I assume you are not trans? So why is cis man an issue? There’s literally no judgement value assigned to the label and no one is excluded.
As to your accusations of “main character syndrome” I really don’t understand what you mean. People have been quite rude so forgive me if I respond to them in kind. I have not goaded people into arguments, people here keep replying and fueling the fire. Maybe take that up with them. All I have done other than that is clarify my point.