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> Remember when people lie about being on steroids. it's because it's illegal in most countries.
Yeah, I go along with their natty lies if it's illegal and the authorities in their country really crack down on steroid use. I mean, if they're in prison, then they can't post on GWM.
But I don't really believe them.
That said, while most GWM here are on something, I kind of feel bad for the women who actually were born with a genetically muscular build and get accused of steroids when they really aren't on them. I know women whom I grew up with that are built like this --- farm girls and athletes. But they're the exception to the rule.
Which countries throw people in prison for using PEDs? Honest question.
I can understand charges for distributing or importing/exporting. But prison for taking PEDs? I mean, 85 percent of the people at my gym would be locked up.
Which countries throw people in prison for using PEDs? Honest question.
I can understand charges for distributing or importing/exporting. But prison for taking PEDs? I mean, 85 percent of the people at my gym would be locked up.
I heard that Switzerland, of all places, is pretty hardcore about cracking down on steroid use. But, this is hearsay.
Which countries throw people in prison for using PEDs? Honest question.
I can understand charges for distributing or importing/exporting. But prison for taking PEDs? I mean, 85 percent of the people at my gym would be locked up.
Possesion of PEDS is illegal in alot of countries and can get you locked up. That said, it's a low priority for most law enforcement.
I don't know... I disagree with the idea that if a girl is stronger than an "average guy", she HAS to be on PEDs. I'm talking about an average guy... not those tiny guys in fetish videos. I'd say a theoretical girl who's 5'10 160lbs, works out 5-6 days/week for years and not on gear, will be stronger than a guy of the same size (or even 10-20lbs heavier) who doesn't work out. Assuming she eats the right food, takes the right supplements, etc. Everything short of PEDs. Obviously, if the guy starts working out a lot, he'd quickly catch up and overtake the girl in the strength department.
I can certainly agree with the idea that the (vast) majority of GWM here are on the gear. But to say that there's no such thing as a girl who gets really strong from just working out hard, I don't know if I can go that far as agreeing with that premise.
I don't know... I disagree with the idea that if a girl is stronger than an "average guy", she HAS to be on PEDs. I'm talking about an average guy... not those tiny guys in fetish videos. I'd say a theoretical girl who's 5'10 160lbs, works out 5-6 days/week for years and not on gear, will be stronger than a guy of the same size (or even 10-20lbs heavier) who doesn't work out. Assuming she eats the right food, takes the right supplements, etc. Everything short of PEDs. Obviously, if the guy starts working out a lot, he'd quickly catch up and overtake the girl in the strength department.
I can certainly agree with the idea that the (vast) majority of GWM here are on the gear. But to say that there's no such thing as a girl who gets really strong from just working out hard, I don't know if I can go that far as agreeing with that premise.
I agree. I know women who definitely do not take or even have access to PEDs who are quite muscular. Hell, I have aunts who beat up dudes their age and older when they were teens (in the 1960s) and were quite muscular, more muscular than some guys, and they never lifted weights. Aggressive tomboys. Some women can be quite muscular without PEDs, for sure.
But I do think that most women who compete are on something. I don't think they could compete if they weren't. There are, however, some competitions that utilize strict testing rules that, for example, Jodi Leigh Miller used to compete in before she went through TRT. The competitors in those are probably natty. There are some exceptionally muscular women on here (GWM) who claim to be natty. I don't believe most of them.
I would like to hear more from the people who voted that they like muscle girls without PEDs.
Do you realize how many women on this website have used or are using PEDs of some sort?
GwM Possible to be natty
Big muscle = 0.0001% low fat = 0.0001% Big muscle + low fat = 0.00000000000001%
This does not mean it is an easy job otherwise there will not be competitions.
I really hate those who claim to be natty and giving tips for people that they can have same result with hard work, discipline, good food and supplements.
I really hate those who claim to be natty and giving tips for people that they can have same result with hard work, discipline, good food and supplements.
Especially when they are selling their training secrets, supplements etc. Literally profitting from misleading people and lying.
Especially when they are selling their training secrets, supplements etc. Literally profitting from misleading people and lying.
Even if they disclosed that they used steroids, the vast majority of that stuff is still a scam. There really aren't training "secrets", you know? It's a science and what works, as well as what doesn't, is firmly established. The vast majority of supplements are bunk. The people selling that kind of stuff on instagram are just capitalizing on parasocial relationships that they're nurtured.
Even if they disclosed that they used steroids, the vast majority of that stuff is still a scam. There really aren't training "secrets", you know? It's a science and what works, as well as what doesn't, is firmly established. The vast majority of supplements are bunk. The people selling that kind of stuff on instagram are just capitalizing on parasocial relationships that they're nurtured.
Yeah good point but beginners don't know that. They believe they can have shoulders like dana bailey if they follow her diet plan and work hard!
Except they can't.
The thing is the GWM we see online are a very small portion (maybe 10%) of all the muscular women in the world. These are the ones that either compete or like showing off on social media.
I've always had 2-3 girls in each class that are muscular in high school and university. In high school they were soccer players or skaters with tree trunk quads, or ballerina with massive calves, or swimmers with beefy backs. In university they were rock climbers with huge biceps and forearms. All of these are women I've personally interacted with, but they never post on social media so nobody knows about them.
Working as cashier in a grocery store, I'd say 15-20% of women were bigger/stronger than the average man. Some just naturally built that muscle by carrying their own groceries over the years, some were nurses, warehouses workers, or firefighters (physically demanding jobs), and a few were obviously competing.
Using this as my basis, in my city alone (population 1 million), thats 15k-20k muscular women. This website has maybe like 2k. The examples I gave from real life are mostly natural, there's no reason for most of those to take PEDs, except for the few that competed in bodybuilding events.
My point is this website is only showing the ones that either bodybuild or influencers on social media, the ones who need PEDs to keep up with the competition. But from my experience, in real life, most muscular women don't compete and aren't influencers, they just simply happened to play a sport or work a job that naturally developed their muscles over the years.
So the claim that the majority of muscular women use PEDs is disingenuous since this is a very small sample size compared to what exists in the world.
I realize I'm speaking entirely from my perspective, maybe it's just my area that's like this. But when I went to Egypt last year, I found it was the same thing there. So I'm inclined to believe that it's the same way everywhere.
Side note, I also did some research a few years ago and found 4-5 research papers on this topic. Those studies showed women are much more capable of developing muscles than is widely believed. Estrogen increases the effectiveness of GH, test, and androgen. They produce more natural GH than men do, and they have another hormone that speeds up recovery. so they still have a high capacity for building muscle despite the low amount of male hormone because there's alot more that goes into building muscle than just that.
The thing is the GWM we see online are a very small portion (maybe 10%) of all the muscular women in the world. These are the ones that either compete or like showing off on social media.
I've always had 2-3 girls in each class that are muscular in high school and university. In high school they were soccer players or skaters with tree trunk quads, or ballerina with massive calves, or swimmers with beefy backs. In university they were rock climbers with huge biceps and forearms. All of these are women I've personally interacted with, but they never post on social media so nobody knows about them.
Working as cashier in a grocery store, I'd say 15-20% of women were bigger/stronger than the average man. Some just naturally built that muscle by carrying their own groceries over the years, some were nurses, warehouses workers, or firefighters (physically demanding jobs), and a few were obviously competing.
Using this as my basis, in my city alone (population 1 million), thats 15k-20k muscular women. This website has maybe like 2k. The examples I gave from real life are mostly natural, there's no reason for most of those to take PEDs, except for the few that competed in bodybuilding events.
My point is this website is only showing the ones that either bodybuild or influencers on social media, the ones who need PEDs to keep up with the competition. But from my experience, in real life, most muscular women don't compete and aren't influencers, they just simply happened to play a sport or work a job that naturally developed their muscles over the years.
So the claim that the majority of muscular women use PEDs is disingenuous since this is a very small sample size compared to what exists in the world.
I realize I'm speaking entirely from my perspective, maybe it's just my area that's like this. But when I went to Egypt last year, I found it was the same thing there. So I'm inclined to believe that it's the same way everywhere.
Side note, I also did some research a few years ago and found 4-5 research papers on this topic. Those studies showed women are much more capable of developing muscles than is widely believed. Estrogen increases the effectiveness of GH, test, and androgen. They produce more natural GH than men do, and they have another hormone that speeds up recovery. so they still have a high capacity for building muscle despite the low amount of male hormone because there's alot more that goes into building muscle than just that.
I agree. I knew 2 girls in high school who had very developed muscles. One was a gymnast and one was a majorette. The majorette, from carrying that heavy stick developed incredible shoulders and biceps. We were friends. One day out of the blue she and I were talking and out of nowhere rolled up her sleeve and flexed her bicep for me and said look at this from just being a majorette. I was floored. She said feel it and I did, it was so hard and developed. Women can develop muscles if they workout. Maybe not to the degree of a man but they can get strong and their muscles can be hard. The gymnast also had incredible arms. I knew her well also, actually felt her flexed bicep one day but just saying that her arms looked strong and she flexed her arm and let me feel it. Needless to say it was so hard and round.
While some of your numbers are way off (this site has much more than 2K women featured, and the grocery store experience is going to differ for everyone... your encounter rate seems much higher than average), your point still stands.
I was just eye-balling these numbers, but I'm usually pretty terrible when it comes to estimating so I'm probably way off when it comes to the numbers. Regardless, the amount of women on here is a miniscule sample size and shouldn't be used to draw conclusions on the entire population.
For me personally, there's a "sweet spot" where you're pretty sure she's on roids, but not SO sure you'd be willing to put money on it. Not sure if that makes sense or not, but for me, that's the absolute perfect point.
The thing is the GWM we see online are a very small portion (maybe 10%) of all the muscular women in the world. These are the ones that either compete or like showing off on social media.
I've always had 2-3 girls in each class that are muscular in high school and university. In high school they were soccer players or skaters with tree trunk quads, or ballerina with massive calves, or swimmers with beefy backs. In university they were rock climbers with huge biceps and forearms. All of these are women I've personally interacted with, but they never post on social media so nobody knows about them.
Working as cashier in a grocery store, I'd say 15-20% of women were bigger/stronger than the average man. Some just naturally built that muscle by carrying their own groceries over the years, some were nurses, warehouses workers, or firefighters (physically demanding jobs), and a few were obviously competing.
Using this as my basis, in my city alone (population 1 million), thats 15k-20k muscular women. This website has maybe like 2k. The examples I gave from real life are mostly natural, there's no reason for most of those to take PEDs, except for the few that competed in bodybuilding events.
My point is this website is only showing the ones that either bodybuild or influencers on social media, the ones who need PEDs to keep up with the competition. But from my experience, in real life, most muscular women don't compete and aren't influencers, they just simply happened to play a sport or work a job that naturally developed their muscles over the years.
So the claim that the majority of muscular women use PEDs is disingenuous since this is a very small sample size compared to what exists in the world.
I realize I'm speaking entirely from my perspective, maybe it's just my area that's like this. But when I went to Egypt last year, I found it was the same thing there. So I'm inclined to believe that it's the same way everywhere.
Side note, I also did some research a few years ago and found 4-5 research papers on this topic. Those studies showed women are much more capable of developing muscles than is widely believed. Estrogen increases the effectiveness of GH, test, and androgen. They produce more natural GH than men do, and they have another hormone that speeds up recovery. so they still have a high capacity for building muscle despite the low amount of male hormone because there's alot more that goes into building muscle than just that.
No offense but I'm guessing your definition of muscular is rather low. I've been involved with sports/fitness/bodybuilding many years and have never encountered a natural female athlete who had 'huge' biceps.
Side note, I also did some research a few years ago and found 4-5 research papers on this topic.
Link to these 'papers' ?
Appearance alone does not reveal someone is using PEDs
Go to a gym and the number of people (men/women) taking PEDs who don't look like they take PEDs will surprise you.
No offense but I'm guessing your definition of muscular is rather low. I've been involved with sports/fitness/bodybuilding many years and have never encountered a natural female athlete who had 'huge' biceps.
Link to these 'papers' ?
Appearance alone does not reveal someone is using PEDs
Go to a gym and the number of people (men/women) taking PEDs who don't look like they take PEDs will surprise you.
I can't link the papers since I read them like 5 years ago, if you don't want to trust me then it's fine, I don't have proof.
As for your other points. You're basing your "facts" on the people you see at the gym. These are people who go their with the intention of growing, they're the ones most likely to use PEDs. However, from my experience, the majority of muscular women don't go to the gym, they just develop their muscles by playing sports or working physical jobs. I'm not basing my judgement on looks, I'm basing it on logic. Why would someone who doesn't go to the gym want to risk the side effects of PEDs when their goal isn't to grow muscle?
My definition of muscular is bigger than the average man. I'm 5'10 160 lbs with 14 inch arms. This is textbook definition of an average man. If a women is bigger/stronger than me, then that's bigger/stronger than average.
My sister-in-law was borderline anorexic when I first met her 4 years ago. She never went to the gym and has no reason to take PEDs. But she spends most of her free time moving furniture and doing repairs around the house, and she's now the same size as the smaller figure competitors you see on here.
The PEDs mainly don't even increase muscle size. They mostly reduce body fat and increase muscle definition. Women with healthy levels of body fat (15-20%) who develop muscle naturally have big muscles but they lack the definition needed to compete. Because of this lack of definition it looks like they have developed muscles and at first glance you would just assume they're fat. But if you pay attention you'll notice their face, fingers, etc. are all skinny and only parts that are big are where there's developed muscles.
The same applies to men. Men who naturally develop muscles by doing physical work look "fat" because they don't have definition. But by paying attention, you notice they're not actually fat, they're just well built.
Basically what the kind of look I'm referring to is how powerlifters tend to look, but smaller.
5'10 160 lbs with 14 inch arms
Speaking as someone who goes to grocery stores, there is no way that 20% of women there are bigger/stronger than this. Unless you're counting obese women who are "bigger" just by virtue of having more fat mass.
The actual percentage of women who are both bigger than this and fit has got to be around 0.01% or less.
Speaking as someone who goes to grocery stores, there is no way that 20% of women there are bigger/stronger than this. Unless you're counting obese women who are "bigger" just by virtue of having more fat mass.
The actual percentage of women who are both bigger than this and fit has got to be around 0.01% or less.
As I said, I just estimated a number and I'm usually terrible with estimates. Doing the math, in a 5 hour shift I would have ~100 customers. Assuming half of those are women, that's 50 women. In each shift I would see 2-3 healthy women that are around the same size (usually stronger) than me. So I guess a better estimate would be 2-5%.
Let's say my area has an unusually high percentage and the actual percentage is around 0.1%. There's ~4 Billion women in the world, 0.1% of that is 4 million women. My point still stands that the fraction we see online are a tiny fraction of muscular women, and that the majority of muscular women just developed their muscles by working physical jobs or playing sports. They have no reason to take PEDs since they're not competing with anyone and those things tend to have pretty serious side effects. Saying most muscular women take PEDs is like saying most people are addicted to drugs; it's just looking at an extremely small sample size and claiming the entire population is the same.
Once again, muscular women isn't limited to those that have clearly defined muscles or low body fat. The majority, from what I've seen, have 15-20% body fat, so their muscles aren't really visible but those muscles are still well developed. To finish it off, this is my personal experience, not everyone will have the same experience or view as me, but that doesn't mean it's any less valid than the so-called "experts" on this subject.
Speaking as someone who goes to grocery stores, there is no way that 20% of women there are bigger/stronger than this. Unless you're counting obese women who are "bigger" just by virtue of having more fat mass.
The actual percentage of women who are both bigger than this and fit has got to be around 0.01% or less.
Yeah thought his estimate of 20% was based on a fantasy of thinking it was that high. But 160lbs for an average male at 5’10” is pretty slim. I was at that in high school/college and was consider skinny. I’d say 180 was more at average and there would be very few women that could be a challenge if they are 160 and below.
As I said, I just estimated a number and I'm usually terrible with estimates. Doing the math, in a 5 hour shift I would have ~100 customers. Assuming half of those are women, that's 50 women. In each shift I would see 2-3 healthy women that are around the same size (usually stronger) than me. So I guess a better estimate would be 2-5%.
Let's say my area has an unusually high percentage and the actual percentage is around 0.1%. There's ~4 Billion women in the world, 0.1% of that is 4 million women. My point still stands that the fraction we see online are a tiny fraction of muscular women, and that the majority of muscular women just developed their muscles by working physical jobs or playing sports. They have no reason to take PEDs since they're not competing with anyone and those things tend to have pretty serious side effects. Saying most muscular women take PEDs is like saying most people are addicted to drugs; it's just looking at an extremely small sample size and claiming the entire population is the same.
Once again, muscular women isn't limited to those that have clearly defined muscles or low body fat. The majority, from what I've seen, have 15-20% body fat, so their muscles aren't really visible but those muscles are still well developed. To finish it off, this is my personal experience, not everyone will have the same experience or view as me, but that doesn't mean it's any less valid than the so-called "experts" on this subject.
I think you're generally right, but would only add that quite a few women adopt exercise routines of various types (gym, yoga, pilates, running, etc.) not to become bodybuilders but to become healthier and more attractive, and depending on their genetics and whether they played sports in the past, they can sort of inadvertently become muscular. So I'd add to your list, "play sports, work a physical job, or work out a lot".
the majority, from what I have seen, have 15-20% body fat.
That range is actually classified as a “top athlete” percentage, and it does indicate highly visible muscle. Remember that the physique “classifications “ for body fat percentage vary quite a bit between men and women. That is not the average body fat percentage for your “average” fit woman.
And not everyone who goes to the gym is there to “grow.” Not everybody is there to lift, or if they do, they might be lifting for other reasons as opposed to “growing.” But, with that being said:
the majority of muscular women don’t go to the gym.
Like Trevorphillps9 said, I’m really curious what you define as a muscular woman, because that sounds like a serious, serious stretch.
Zote you are living in heaven if you can see 2-3 healthy natty muscle women bigger than 5'10" 160Ib with biceps bigger then 14" and 10%-20% body fat within 5 hour shift every day.
I am seriously consider to make visit to your place and I am glad to work in such grocery store even for low wage.
It would be dream come true.
Is she happy?
Or does she hate the world?