You like strong females, but does it matter if natural vs roided?

Agreed.

A lot of guys here (especially the ones who don't train themselves) really have no clue as to what is achievable naturally, especially as a woman. Having a preference for muscular women means accepting the fact that the overwhelming majority of physiques that we find visually appealing are not possible unless one is using PEDs. The problem (for lack of a better word) with sites like this is that it results in a kind of confirmation bias amongst the guys who browse it. They see a ubiquitous number of muscular women and think it's becoming more of a norm, or that it represents the results of women starting to get into the weight room. That warped view results in when they see an actual natural woman who lifts 5+ days a week, but think they either don't lift or barely do. Gaining muscle naturally as a woman is very, very difficult, and the results are nowhere near as prominent as it is with a man. And before some idiot chimes in by saying "ugh, more dudes who think women can't build muscle without steroids," note that I never said that women can't build muscle without steroids. They absolutely can, but the results are far less stark than those we are accustomed to seeing on sites like this.

I'm an athlete, and while I don't bodybuild I am around competitors and attend competitions and expos. I recently chatted with a former training partner who switched from CrossFit to bikini competitions and placed just short of winning a pro card at her last competition. Remember, bikini competitors are the smallest competitors at a bodybuilding show, and when we talked about the cycle her coach put her on, it was a LOT of compounds. If your average amateur bikini athlete is using that many compounds, you can only imagine what bigger and more defined competitors are using. Bikini competitors are not just "using a bit of anavar."

And when it comes to sides, while yes, taking more and harsher compounds can result in virilization, more often than not its genetics that cause those changes. Think of Dani Reardon. It's not hard to conclude that she was on a lot of compounds, but it's clear she was genetically blessed because she barely developed any virilization. Meanwhile, I know guys who ran a beginner test cycle and pretty much lost their entire hairline. OP, you can't move the goalpost by claiming that those signs are indicative of being "roided to the max." How well you respond to PEDs, and the negative side effects you get from them, are primarily determined by your genetics.

I never understood why some dudes are so adamant to defend a bodybuilder/athlete's claim that they are natural, as if the knowledge of them using PEDs ruins their fetish. Why does it? Steroids are not some magic bullet. You still have to put a ton of work in, and in fact even more work versus that of a natural athlete, and you still have to have your nutrition and recovery in check. I also know men and women who use but train and eat like shit, and it shows. Part of being into buff women is accepting that the physique that turns you on is more than likely not natural. And if you can't accept that, you better start getting into much, much smaller and less defined women.

Right on point! Bravo.

I fine with roids, most of the girls I like are on roids.

I found natural GWM very attractive. I know they are very very rare.

I also like girls with PEDs with big visible muscles. I don't mind some side effects like deep voice even though it was a turn off for me before.

PEDs are not magical pills. Girls with PEDs need lots of efforts to reach these levels. Girls with PEDs are not cheating. Also PEDs are not short cuts. PEDs will just extend the limit that natural body can not reach in terms of strength, size and fat loss.

The Chainer chart is 100% spot on. A little goes a long way, too much and it destroys the allure of what it was supposed to enhance

Honestly and in reality people who answered "roided" either don't mind some minor side effects because they're still turned on by the big muscles, or they don't mind any side effects because they're turned on by the very freakiness of it, or they are turned on or consoled or comforted by the woman's suffering and self-destruction. There is no generosity or courage or heroic open-mindedness in any of these three.

This reminds me of a bodybuilding documentary I watched (forget which one). In it, they talked about the fact that they used to test for PEDs in the early days of pro bodybuilding. Then the sponsors and people who paid to see it told them to knock it off! "I'm paying to see this spectacle, and I wanna see freaks!" And the rest is history.

So yes, in female bodybuilding, there's indeed an element of the fanbase who want to see the freaks. Then again, perhaps we all do here, but just the level of freakishness we like vary widely.

Checking with the poll results, as of this post, 58 respondents say they prefer women who don’t take PEDs. I’m really curious as to what those respondents consider as a “natural” physique. I guarantee that the women they lust after the most are on them.

This reminds me of a bodybuilding documentary I watched (forget which one). In it, they talked about the fact that they used to test for PEDs in the early days of pro bodybuilding. Then the sponsors and people who paid to see it told them to knock it off! "I'm paying to see this spectacle, and I wanna see freaks!" And the rest is history.

Something similar I thought about when reading this was the evolution of the CrossFit Games. The first Games consisted of events that were actually pretty doable for a highly trained natural athlete. Compared that to today’s Games, and it’s so much more intense and the women are lifting weights as heavy as the men were in the early days. The standards have jumped so high, and that’s because spectators want to see stronger and more conditioned athletes participating in more punishing events.

So I guess women like Andrea Shaw have crossed the line for most of you. She knows what she’s doing and I find her incredibly enticing as a women and not how some would describe her as looking like a man.

Checking with the poll results, as of this post, 58 respondents say they prefer women who don’t take PEDs. I’m really curious as to what those respondents consider as a “natural” physique. I guarantee that the women they lust after the most are on them.

Something similar I thought about when reading this was the evolution of the CrossFit Games. The first Games consisted of events that were actually pretty doable for a highly trained natural athlete. Compared that to today’s Games, and it’s so much more intense and the women are lifting weights as heavy as the men were in the early days. The standards have jumped so high, and that’s because spectators want to see stronger and more conditioned athletes participating in more punishing events.

Funny you should mention crossfit. I know a couple of women who have been doing Crossfit for several years, 1 moved onto bodybuilding and was open about her PED use, bit hard not to be when both her and her husband got arrested importing steroids. Another one has admitted to doing a cycle and commented that even at a club level most people are using PEDs, and at the gym she is a member of alot of people are openly discussing it. She told me that she was doing the school pickup one day and talking to a couple of other mothers who are also crossfitters and one of them had some HGH in her handbag that she had just gotten.

It is sad that PED had side effects and we are not happy for suffering of women in PED .

When we say we found women in PED attractive, we are talking about their strength and beauty effects on us.

They choose this path and they should know the side effects. No body force them. Otherwise they will just quit or not enter PED world from the beginning.

If my close friend decides to have PED I will not encourage him/ her. However if he/ she choose to go on this path with its good and bad I will support him/ her by admiring the good results and not to disappoint him/ her for the side effects.

After reading comments on this post, I understand now the difficult life of GWM and why they avoid to interact with people in public in general. Most people will feel disgusting and say they are like men and those minority of people who likes GWM will feel disgusting about side effects and run away from reality expecting to see their fantasies in real world. Also they have to hide the fact they are using PED to participate in competitions while everyone knows the facts including people who is doing the test.

People including those who like GWM are looking to them as freaks and cheater.

For those who want to see GWM without PED and their side effects better stay in your fantasy world. Otherwise accept the fact that big muscle are masculine and women can only have small muscles with very rare cases with a little bigger muscles.

So, it's complicated.

Ceteris paribus I would find a natty woman more enticing than a PED user, but we all know that the threshold for what natty women can achieve in terms of physique is quite low, and there are women with amazing physiques who use PEDs whom I find quite attractive. So until there is some sort of CRISPR treatment that hypertrophizes a lady's muscle without giving her the man jaw, deep voice, etc. (thus giving us the long sought after "Tetsuko in real life") there are levels of PED side effects I'll have to accept when thirsting up muscle babes.

So until there is some sort of CRISPR treatment that hypertrophizes a lady's muscle without giving her the man jaw, deep voice, etc. (thus giving us the long sought after "Tetsuko in real life") there are levels of PED side effects I'll have to accept when thirsting up muscle babes.

That's my main grievance. I don't really understand how, to this day, medical science hasn't been able to find a way to enhance muscularity without any other side effects. Why is muscle growth strictly tied to hormones?

That's my main grievance. I don't really understand how, to this day, medical science hasn't been able to find a way to enhance muscularity without any other side effects. Why is muscle growth strictly tied to hormones?

Because biology is complicated, man. A single cell is an enormous network of very complex molecules, constantly moving around and interacting and reacting with each other. Any new substance you introduce to produce one effect is fairly likely to have other, unforeseen effects. It's theoretically possible to engineer, say, a targeted protein, but doing so will require a battery of tests, from in vitro to animal models to human testing, and cost potentially millions of dollars.

Much of the research that brought us the knowledge we have today on steroids and muscle growth was probably conducted in the Soviet Union, as they sought ways to turn ordinary athletes into athletes who would guarantee them Olympic golds. Absent a big science effort like that, the search for a non-androgenic anabolic will probably be starved for funding, and there would be ethical concerns too. Maybe Jake Wood would be capable of putting up the funds, and maybe he could find eager young bikini competitors willing to test it out... but he doesn't mind roided-out girls... he seems to like them masculine.

Otherwise accept the fact that muscle are masculine and women can only have small muscles with very rare cases with a little bigger muscles.

Wait what?? Muscles are masculine?? Lol!

So, it's complicated.

Ceteris paribus I would find a natty woman more enticing than a PED user, but we all know that the threshold for what natty women can achieve in terms of physique is quite low, and there are women with amazing physiques who use PEDs whom I find quite attractive.

I hate to admit it, but I guess I had been pretty naive before all the discussion on this thread. I truly believed that, if she didn't look ridiculously jacked, but is much stronger than she looked, perhaps she was natty. A girl I find incredibly attractive and chat with often on cam has muscle---very athletic body, but looks and sounds quite feminine. However, she lifts some serious weights and I've seen videos of her doing it. Not powerlifting weights by any means, but still impressive. Weights even I as an average sized, athletic guy would struggle with at the higher end. She's always claimed to be natty and I've always believed her because she does work out 5-6 days a week while I work out maybe one or twice a month :) However, I'm pretty sure now that she must be on the gear.

At the same time, I think I'm fine with it. At the end of the day I think as long as they look and sound like a girl and don't go nuts on the roids, I still find them quite appealing. I have no intention of ever confronting this girl about not truly being natty though. There'd be absolutely no point.

All I expect for my taste in female bodybuilders is for them to have some semblance of femininity. I don't care how big they are as long as they still have some feminine qualities. Take Alyssa Kiessling for example. She's jacked as fuck but there's nothing girlish or feminine about her. Same with Renee Toney. Any trace of femininity is gone! But then you look at women like Colette Nelson, Cindy Phillips, Katka Kyptova, Dani Reardon, and Rene Marven. All women who are/were absolutely jacked in their primes but still really carried themselves in a feminine manner. They were still very much in touch with their feminine side.

she’s always claimed to be natty…

Let me give you a bit of a pro tip. If someone goes out of their way to claim that they’re natty, they aren’t.

True natties don’t have to go around telling other people they are natty.

True natties don’t have to go around telling other people they are natty.

Everytime 😭

Let me give you a bit of a pro tip. If someone goes out of their way to claim that they’re natty, they aren’t.

True natties don’t have to go around telling other people they are natty.

I just automatically assume everyone is on steroids by default, but if they're on the smaller side of things I'll be unsure.

Let me give you a bit of a pro tip. If someone goes out of their way to claim that they’re natty, they aren’t.

True natties don’t have to go around telling other people they are natty.

Nah, to be fair, it's not something that she ever talks about much. In fact, we've been talking for a few years now and I think we've talked about it maybe 2 or 3 times. And I'm always the one to bring it up when the conversation veers into the topic of steroids in female bodybuilding. In fact, she once said it's the only reason she doesn't compete because she can't get that muscular/jacked naturally.

Hmm.. I think I'm somewhat re-convincing myself she actually might be natty after all lol Yes she's definitely muscular, but definitely not competition-caliber muscle. More like girl-who-works-out-a-LOT-for-many-years muscle. But you know what, I may be wrong, but it ultimately doesn't matter.

... but it ultimately doesn't matter.

I think that's the most important part.

Remember when people lie about being on steroids. it's because it's illegal in most countries.

Remember when people lie about being on steroids. it's because it's illegal in most countries.

Yeah, I go along with their natty lies if it's illegal and the authorities in their country really crack down on steroid use. I mean, if they're in prison, then they can't post on GWM.

But I don't really believe them.

That said, while most GWM here are on something, I kind of feel bad for the women who actually were born with a genetically muscular build and get accused of steroids when they really aren't on them. I know women whom I grew up with that are built like this --- farm girls and athletes. But they're the exception to the rule.

Nah, to be fair, it's not something that she ever talks about much. In fact, we've been talking for a few years now and I think we've talked about it maybe 2 or 3 times. And I'm always the one to bring it up when the conversation veers into the topic of steroids in female bodybuilding. In fact, she once said it's the only reason she doesn't compete because she can't get that muscular/jacked naturally.

Hmm.. I think I'm somewhat re-convincing myself she actually might be natty after all lol Yes she's definitely muscular, but definitely not competition-caliber muscle. More like girl-who-works-out-a-LOT-for-many-years muscle. But you know what, I may be wrong, but it ultimately doesn't matter.

Look man, people lie about PED use (and other things!) all the time, including to close friends and family. You are just some random dude paying her to give you a cam show. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but she really has nothing to gain from telling, again, random dude, about her PED usage, assuming she is using. I think there's really no point in asking a (muscular) cam model about PED usage.

And yes, at the end of the day, especially as guys who have this fetish for buff women, it ultimately doesn't matter. Again, it takes a lot of hard work to build muscle, whether as a natural athlete or an enhanced one. The only time it becomes a concern is when said athlete/influencer goes out of their way to claim that their physique is natural (when it's not,) while they are promoting to people that they too can build the kind of body they have naturally if only they follow whatever bullshit they happen to be selling. Way too many influencers (Liver King comes to mind) are preying on gullible (mostly young) followers.