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Yet one more observation or thought experiment I would like to share.
Imagine that there is a child who is abused, mistreated, rejected or neglected somehow. This could include just a few special or extreme cases or almost everyone, but I leave it for everyone else to decide. While this abuse or mistreatment goes on, it is natural for a child to desire love and acceptance. But because it is not safe to desire love and acceptance from abusive parents, the child will try to keep this desire in check or even deny it or push it to the back of his mind.
Now when a child like this leaves home and enters the outside world he will not be looking for actual love, because love is based on sanity, trust, safety and meeting reasonable expectations. One of these reasonable expectations is that people should desire to be more helpful than harmful to each other, more predictable than unpredictable and more cooperative than competitive. An abused child has no such idea and neither do abusive parents.
Instead of that he will find familiar his repressed thirst for love and acceptance. In order to love and be loved one ought to look for cooperative and trustworthy people. This implies shared goals, shared projects or shared resources on at least some level. But if no such things exist then there is no context in which the trust or cooperation could take place.
I suggest that many women on this site are extremely good objects for the aforesaid thirst. There's also a whole new level to it when the connection that formed in childhood between the abuse and the repressed thirst comes into play. The motivating factor is not the feeling of being threatened or hurt or any feeling of inferiority but the learned and conditioned response to abuse, which is to crave for acceptance.
I think it is general knowledge that often fetishes, porn and sex are more about the buildup than the release or focus more on the craving than the orgasm. The more there is craving, the more there is a promise of it being satisfied in end. Though technically the promise disappears the moment the craving disappears. People do not go wild with receiving. They go wild with desire.
Casual sex is a combination of these. It is part fueling one's thirst and part cooperating in fueling the thirst of another. Love is not a feeling per se but knowing what the other person is about and agreeing with him, which in turn causes what people experience as being loved or being with a loving person. In a very rudimentary sense this is one thing casual sex has that porn does not. But naturally the value of such sex is limited by the fact that very few can entirely dedicate their life to it and so becomes necessary to know how to be loving in other areas of life too.
I've been online full-time since 1994. This is one of the best posts I've ever read.
ETA: i did say i was only going to write after reading Tao's book earlier, so i concede to my breach on that statement with this message.
This is a psychological and philosophical angle on the fetish. So why can’t the subject be about that!? “I don’t know why I like muscular women - I don’t care why - People who do are idiots” seems like a pretty unintelligent standpoint here. You have thousands of chances to type “Boing” and “My muscle goddess” somewhere else!!
i don't know if this is directed towards me, but if you have read my comment, you'll find that i never attacked the thread's premise, was readily appreciative of the value of other users' input, and i even gave my own take on the topic. so in truth, your presumption that i think people are idiotic who wonder why they like what they like isn't just baseless, but would actually include myself in that bracket.
what should've been implicit in my message is that i doubt whatever answer that might be is something i'm going to skim out of Zarkle's mindlessly sententious faux-philosophical text-walls, and this ofc is obviously a personal opinion that i'm perfectly entitled to, just as much as it is your entitlement to lap up his verbal screed for something more than it actually amounts to.
you're also very welcome to find wherever it is here or anywhere else that i've ever expressed myself with "boing" or "my muscle goddess" - though at the very least those tics bear no pretentions to their inherent inanity compared with "big boobs are a sign of generosity!", which carries as much psychological and philosophical merit as deducing someone's personality by their eye colour, or horoscoping.
It wasn’t directed to you per se Barteus. :) Your input, that I personally appreciated by the way, did contain things that I was afraid could contaminate this interesting thread though. My input was to encourage Zarkle to continue. If you go back a couple of pages you will see that my input fit other users much better than you.
Love to hear Herbiceps who said it so much better than me!! Yes. It’s the best best post I’ve read too!!!
To get back to the actual subject.
Am I the only one who think that it’s too much and “could take a pill” to get rid of this fetish!?
Am I the only one who have met several bodybuilders in sexual encounters and still have not received that “feeling” that you could expect!?!
Am I’m the only one who has to talk to every muscular woman about the fetish!?
Am I the only one who believes that muscular women are only a mental picture for something else!?
If you are that person who only think “what’s the deal, muscles are beautiful” you have no clue what “our” fetish is about.
I think it’s a search for something that you are not supposed to find, but needs to understand to make sense of everything in your life. Heavy!? Yes it is and yes, I’ve seen shrinks in my life.
Therefore it is both interesting to hear wise inputs from fellow men and to hear new takes.
I'll try to explain my point of view with my broken english : What i like is the idea of hard work to get these physique. I really enjoy pictures and videos of a sweaty woman in the gym, showing her efforts and how hard it is. That's why fetish stuff with women getting big instantly by drinking a magic potion doesn't work with me for example. It says something about her personality, she is strong-willed and dedicated to her stuff.
This hit the nail on the head for me. The idea of someone doing whatever it take to get stronger/improving their body is such a turn on for me.
To get back to the actual subject.
Am I the only one who think that it’s too much and “could take a pill” to get rid of this fetish!?
No, you are not the only one. I have thought this many times... wishing I could just be like all the others who just like tits and ass and can get it 100000000x time easier
Am I the only one who have met several bodybuilders in sexual encounters and still have not received that “feeling” that you could expect!?!
Well I haven't met several bodybuilder in sexual encounters... I'd say maybe just 2-3 but yes I have not received that feeling yet. At first I felt just their body would do it for me but then after these encounters I've realized I need more to the connection. I need the person to want to be with me, to want me as I want them.
Am I’m the only one who has to talk to every muscular woman about the fetish!?
Nop, I also do so.
Am I the only one who believes that muscular women are only a mental picture for something else!?
I've never thought about it this way but hmm, interesting.
If you are that person who only think “what’s the deal, muscles are beautiful” you have no clue what “our” fetish is about.
I think it’s a search for something that you are not supposed to find, but needs to understand to make sense of everything in your life. Heavy!? Yes it is and yes, I’ve seen shrinks in my life.
Therefore it is both interesting to hear wise inputs from fellow men and to hear new takes.
Currently I'm with a great girl, we've been dating for close to a year (and this I feel has happened before as well with other girls) but I feel like I'm missing out on being with someone who has that body type I've always wanted. Heck, Im traveling tomorrow to another country just to experience and be with a bodybuilder... I mean, I know something is wrong and that I'm searching for something I haven't felt and want to feel. I also don't commit to for example this girl because I feel like I'd be doing the wrong thing, not being true to myself and my feelings on wanting "that". Not sure if Im explaining myself... :(
How is this a fetish?
How is apprecation for a woman who has more muscle mass than society considers normal a fetish?
Am I missing something or is my interpretation of the term fetish unduly negative?
Fit, strong amazon-type warrior women are and always have been my thing. Personally, I never feel guilty about being attracted to jacked gals.
Any feedback would be welcome team. Cheers. :-)
my post was perfectly on topic! No reason for deletion!
This is the Nonfiction section of the forum. Comments that play out fiction/fantasies will be deleted.
Fetish is defined as being sexually attracted to a body part or a physical feature or a physical accessory. So this is literally a fetish, just like a car is a thing that has four wheels and a steering wheel.
The term has a negative connotation in case it is assumed that it is somehow more normal, mature, healthy or acceptable to be attracted to a person instead of a body part. Not all people care about normal and when it comes to acceptable one can always choose one's friends.
Regarding health and maturity you really did not say that you would totally ignore the person or the individual and focus entirely on the muscularity. Maybe you could compare it to being attracted to Spanish or Japanese women. There is a difference between wanting to date a Spanish person and wanting to have sex with someone's Japaneseness.
Okay, I got it. In that case, I'm very much attracted to women who have a fit, muscled physique but I don't want to #### her muscles per se.
We're all adults here, the physical tends to move to the background after a while with a partner anyway, in favour of personality, shared interests, shared goals, shared experiences etc.
Thanks for the answer.
Leading evolutionary psychologist in mating strategies David Buss recently commented on kinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sndW9hzX-wA&t...
His basic hypothesis is that males are classically conditioned, which might explain why they're far more predisposed to fetishes of all kinds. If your early experience with sexual feelings involved leather, then the association is more likely to stick with you. Men are more sensitive to these environmental cues (think of Skinner's pigeons) because they're inclined to believe it will lead to sex. Ironically, this kind of conditioning in modern novel circumstances can result in serious distortions that lead to less sex (which is consistent with how evolutionary psychology can "mismatch"). The ancestral environment did not feature nearly as many novelties that humans would be sensitive toward. We encounter far more body types and accessories in the modern environment.
Women, he says, are not as likely to be conditioned because they are the pursued. While a single sex act can produce offspring for males, there's far more investment among females (pregnancy, birth, caregiving), so mental modules are more invested in mate selection.
Leading evolutionary psychologist in mating strategies David Buss recently commented on kinks.
Watched this. I am honestly a huge fan of evolution because as a mechanism for how things change (thinking of biology or culture or technology, etc) it is very useful. But evolutionary psychology...i have heard it is a lot of unverified science, i.e, you can't prove any of it empirically. It is an interesting theory no doubt, but I would be wary of its veracity.
There is a problem with "just-so" stories. In this case, conditioning as an explanation pre-dates evolutionary psychology. Ev-psych stuff would endeavor to explain differences between males and females. I find a lot of it compelling. How do we explain May-Dec. relationships usually consisting of an older man and younger woman? Because the patriarchal media vs. males have longer fertility windows (and accumulate resources). Same thing for partner count and so on.
Its interesting you bring up may-dec relationships. Because I have heard it is an outcome of longer life expectancy rather than psychology. Before modern medicine most people didn't live past 30. But now people live longer and can accumulate resources. I def don't see it as a psychology thing.
Its interesting you bring up may-dec relationships. Because I have heard it is an outcome of longer life expectancy rather than psychology. Before modern medicine most people didn't live past 30. But now people live longer and can accumulate resources. I def don't see it as a psychology thing.
Those stats are probably skewed by sky-high rates of infant mortality. Life expectancy in the US during the revolutionary period was under 30, so does that mean hardly anyone would be old enough to be president (35 requirement)?
Guys in pre modern times you had a lot of infant mortality but if you survived your first years you would probably live until age 60+
Depends of your social status. Peasants in ancient times must have life expectancy close to Madagascar today : 57 years old.
But Louis XIV died at 76, Eleanor of Aquitaine died at 82, Voltaire at 83, Michaelangelo at 88, Ramesses II at 91...
Zarklephaser, can it be that the visual appearance of a muscular woman then can mean different things for different men!? That there could be a lot of different “conditions” with the same outcome meaning that a muscular woman is attractive!?
In my case it seems to have a lot to do with security and my need to be taken care of. Domination and humiliation is there in the background, but it doesn’t do it for me in real life.
I would love to hear your take on this.
Zarklephaser. I have a new fetish!! Your insights!! :) No, but i really really enjoy this and find it incredibly fascinating. Thanks again!!
I have to ask you. With your, let's call it, enlightment, what is your approach to your own fetish? You seem to understand what it's coming from and I agree with you regarding "the substitute for the actual person". Are you in a place where you just let yourself enjoy the fetish, or are you struggling?!?!
I guess you understand what I'm asking.
@Zarklephaser, it seems from reading your insights into our attraction to muscular women, that this attraction stems from a flawed nurturing environment influenced by an aberrant mother - son relationship. What do you think about the biological reasons for these attractions? Inherited wiring that is psychologically triggered in early childhood for example. And that trigger not based on the mother son relationship but an impressionable stimulus like seeing a buff woman for the first time or playful adolescent wrestling in the school yard with a tom boyish girl. I have often thought about the origins of my attraction to buff women and my reasoning led to these explanations. Deep down maybe my relationship with my mother influenced this, she was a strong stubborn woman but we did not have a flawed relationship growing up.
This is a psychological and philosophical angle on the fetish. So why can’t the subject be about that!? “I don’t know why I like muscular women - I don’t care why - People who do are idiots” seems like a pretty unintelligent standpoint here. You have thousands of chances to type “Boing” and “My muscle goddess” somewhere else!!
Personally I have never found anything more interesting on this page than zarklephaser4’s inputs and I’m looking forward to every new entry!! Thanks man. I have not written anything yet because you beat me in curiosity and knowledge on this subject. I think every analysis is on the spot!!
I’m happily married with children and lead a magnificent life. Even though, I spend most of my time thinking about how I can enjoy my fetish even more. It’s off course insane to spend so much time on tissue inside a woman’s skin!! It’s just muscle!! So off course the psychological aspect is super interesting. For me that is. And the subject is about that.