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I think it’s much more likely that biologically male-born trans athletes will be banned from competing in women’s sports entirely.
It’s possible that a separate category will be created for trans competitors but in reality their numbers are so small that this could be unlikely.
It’s a very controversial topic though, there’s likely to be a lot of heated debate and fallout from whatever decision is made.
I think it’s much more likely that biologically male-born trans athletes will be banned from competing in women’s sports entirely.
This is the way it should go in my opinion. Some states have already taken this measure and I think this way will only gain steam.
Here's my take: trans male-to-female athletes can be a problem, but it's absolutely overblown. And they are used as a political football to score points.
I like to use the analogy of drunk driving. It kills about 11,000 people a year. That's the macro issue.
When it comes to women's sports, you have enormous macro issues too. It's not taken seriously. It's not funded equally. Girls are often sexualized, and sometimes explicitly molested. Female athletes are haranged and criticized more than males. Without a doubt, it's more difficult and less rewarding to be a female athlete... and this absolutely includes bodybuilding and physique.
Now let's go back to drunk driving. Think about drunk people in supercars. Ferraris, McLarens, all of that. It's insane to think of someone driving one of those drunk, and the wreck could be spectacular. It would grab headlines (and it often does).
In my mind, trans athletes are like these DUI supercars. It's a dramatic scenario to think of a hulking transwoman who effortlessly dominates all of the other girls. That can happen, and it would be unfair. But it's REALLY RARE. And the people claiming to protect women's sports by banning trans people... I don't see them doing anything about the actual big issues that are plaguing womens sports. I'm willing to bet that most girls are more concerned about being molested by the team physician than losing to a trans person. There's not that many trans people... even less are interested in sports.. and even less are some kind of elite athlete in the making.
Pay women the same as men, take their sports just as seriously as mens sports, protect girls from abuse by coaches and THEN I'm willing to entertain the trans issue. But most of the conservatives pushing for these laws couldn't give a shit about women in general. Even the politicians who are women.
What is your problem? RARE?! Dude, ACTUAL female athletes have been denied a placing, and thus, a scholarship, or a chance to compete at a higher level.
Most female college athletes have no intention of competing after college, and the majority of the athletes do so because of commitments with scholarships. THAT'S why they compete, and that's why they stop when they graduate college. If you want to bring up "rare" then fine: I personally knew a female track athlete who continued to train after graduating because she was trying for a place on the Olympic team. She tried, but did not make it. She no longer trains.
Your "solutions" are just activism disguised as virtue. Most womens' sports aren't "taken seriously" (your words) because most aren't entertaining to watch. Would enacting laws or policies "forcing" populations to change really solve your problem?
Your statement about "conservatives pushing..." is false and you know it. Most of these "conservatives" have daughters who compete and lose placings, scholarships, and acceptance because of a mediocre male athlete who couldn't compete with his peers.
Your "solutions" are just activism disguised as virtue. Most womens' sports aren't "taken seriously" (your words) because most aren't entertaining to watch. Would enacting laws or policies "forcing" populations to change really solve your problem?
Your statement about "conservatives pushing..." is false and you know it. Most of these "conservatives" have daughters who compete and lose placings, scholarships, and acceptance because of a mediocre male athlete who couldn't compete with his peers.
I agree. You can't grow money on trees to pay women the same, because no one wants to watch them play. I'm amazed the WNBA is still in existence. Sports are like companies, if they don't make money they go away and people lose their jobs. No one can ever explain where the money is supposed to come from when coming up with their solutions. And it is always a "mediocre male athlete" that's trying to say he's a woman, isn't it? Amazing how that works.
The funny part is how any of you pretend this thread is about anything other than an excuse to bash trans women.
Here's what's gonna happen: a bunch of mother hens are going to get spooked by a media-created boogeyman claiming a whole generation of boys will pretend to be girls to get slightly ahead in local athletics. Then a month or two from now they'll fear a cartoon with a gay protagonist, or water fluoridation, or the Zionist Occupied Government because America's number one national resource is paranoia.
And in the meantime, trans people will tick along as we always have. We'll lose some, we'll win some, but either way we're not going anywhere.
What is your problem? RARE?! Dude, ACTUAL female athletes have been denied a placing, and thus, a scholarship, or a chance to compete at a higher level.
Most female college athletes have no intention of competing after college, and the majority of the athletes do so because of commitments with scholarships. THAT'S why they compete, and that's why they stop when they graduate college. If you want to bring up "rare" then fine: I personally knew a female track athlete who continued to train after graduating because she was trying for a place on the Olympic team. She tried, but did not make it. She no longer trains.
Your "solutions" are just activism disguised as virtue. Most womens' sports aren't "taken seriously" (your words) because most aren't entertaining to watch. Would enacting laws or policies "forcing" populations to change really solve your problem?
Your statement about "conservatives pushing..." is false and you know it. Most of these "conservatives" have daughters who compete and lose placings, scholarships, and acceptance because of a mediocre male athlete who couldn't compete with his peers.
I agree with your response. This user is essentially arguing for one problem to continue to exist because other problems continue to exist; it's ludicrous.
Feel hesitant in replying, much less starting a new thread, since the subject is so controversial, especially now. But it's a topic one can't avoid in our modern age. I'm seeing more fbbs speaking up about it, the latest being Helle Trevino in her IG post today (the controversy stems from Lia Thomas, the trans swimmer making headlines). Helle, as well as many others who replied to her post, make salient points, and it's worth checking out no matter where you stand on the issue. She isn't simply stirring the pot and bashing trans women.
The topic of trans athletes is especially relevant to female bodybuilding. After all, the sport is constantly bashed by its haters and those ignorant on fbbs as basically women trying to look like men. As fbb fans, we know this is inherently false, but the dynamic will certainly change, and probably not for the better, if trans women were to compete alongside cisgender women. To the original poster, it's certainly fun to think of women juicing more to compensate (especially if you're a fan of the bigger fbbs like I am) but this is a lose-lose proposition. The fairest win-win, as seems to be the consensus, would be to grant trans athletes their own division.
One interesting dynamic with the prevalence of trans women is that it is creating interesting loopholes on social media, where regulations on nudity which would otherwise be enforced for women, resulting in censorship, are being bypassed. There is one female bodybuilder on IG in particular who goes completely bare chested and is able to get away with it because her chest is so muscular and has such little fat it can be easily mistaken for a man's (think Annie, Colette, Dena, and most old school fbbs). Which is great, if you're a pec lover like me!
When it comes to an athletic discipline and you have competition in that discipline then what matters is/are the right tail(s) of the relevant population distribution(s). What that means is that a competition in a given skill will attract members of the right tail (i.e., the best) in a population. If now in a population there are two sub populations (e.g., biological women, transgender women) then again you have to look at the two right tails. There it is pretty clear that when it comes to most physical skills (track and field, swimming, ...) the best trans women athletes will be better than the best women. Sure the best women will be better than most trans women (most humans for that matter), but that is not what matters. They are not up against an average trans woman, but against the best trans women.
To make the matter clear, let us take a traditional setting. Why do biological women not compete with biological males in, say, swimming? Because the fastest 200m butterfly male swimmer is in a different league compared to the best 200m butterfly female swimmer. The female swimmer will be faster than 99.99999% of all males, but that's irrelevant. She will not be faster than the fastest male swimmers. Therefore, she will never win an Olympic medal if she were asked to compete against men.
When it comes to women versus trans women things are less extreme, but similar. While trans women tend to undergo hormone therapy and constitute a relatively smaller population the competition is still fundamentally flawed.
So, I agree with the commenter who said that trans women will be banned from competing with biological females. That will happen once the era of politicizing things is over.
No, I am not a bigot. I very much am into muscular women and muscular trans women and I have/had both biologically female and trans female life partners.
I do believe that MtF athletes have an inherent advantage if they compete in women categories in sports.
Having said this, I think it's a shame that this subject is way overused by people who clearly are just looking for yet another angle to hate on and mock trans women in general without actually giving a shit about women's sports.
Not really pointing any fingers to anyone in this particular thread, I'm talking about the internet in general. There are people who just go around looking for any kind of weak, dumb excuse to keep flinging shit at trans people.
I do believe that MtF athletes have an inherent advantage if they compete in women categories in sports.
Having said this, I think it's a shame that this subject is way overused by people who clearly are just looking for yet another angle to hate on and mock trans women in general without actually giving a shit about women's sports.
Not really pointing any fingers to anyone in this particular thread, I'm talking about the internet in general. There are people who just go around looking for any kind of weak, dumb excuse to keep flinging shit at trans people.
Yeah, that’s my main gripe. People only wanna talk about women’s sports when a trans women is involved. Yes, trans women have an advantage, but miss me with the fake outrage lol
Yeah, that’s my main gripe. People only wanna talk about women’s sports when a trans women is involved. Yes, trans women have an advantage, but miss me with the fake outrage lol
Why is out "outrage" for people to have a problem with men, that couldn't beat other men, getting to beat women? It's not Ok, it's not "no big deal".
The funny part is how any of you pretend this thread is about anything other than an excuse to bash trans women.
Here's what's gonna happen: a bunch of mother hens are going to get spooked by a media-created boogeyman claiming a whole generation of boys will pretend to be girls to get slightly ahead in local athletics. Then a month or two from now they'll fear a cartoon with a gay protagonist, or water fluoridation, or the Zionist Occupied Government because America's number one national resource is paranoia.
And in the meantime, trans people will tick along as we always have. We'll lose some, we'll win some, but either way we're not going anywhere.
Pardon me, but it looks like you in fact did go somewhere.
Why is out "outrage" for people to have a problem with men, that couldn't beat other men, getting to beat women? It's not Ok, it's not "no big deal".
Agreed. It's not like I was spending my spare time pissing on women's sports until trans females started competing. When people notice things they have a right to voice their opinions, and many people do take issue with biological males competing against biological females.
However little I think of such competitors' integrity, I'm more disappointed in the women's sports administrators who threw their athletes under the bus of "progressivism".
If it's a competition where athletic ability is concerned. Well, we have male and female teams for a reason. To suggest that HRT and cosmetic surgery is somehow a leveler of playing fields is disingenuous at best, and social justice bullshit at its finest.
When it comes to the subject of professional BB competitions and everything under that umbrella, however, those are all about aesthetics, rather than demonstrations of athleticism: Beauty and beef pageants. The women are juiced to the tits, and a great many have had cosmetic surgery to enhance their stage presence.
Given that, I see no issue with trans women or men, for that matter, competing with genetic ones, if they look the part. The only real difference is covered up anyway.
Why is out "outrage" for people to have a problem with men, that couldn't beat other men, getting to beat women? It's not Ok, it's not "no big deal".
The point is that most people are simply using this issue as a political tool. It’s clear that most people don’t really care about women’s sports that much
Trying to get back on OPs topic, my take is the media has emphasized on the tiny bits of biology they understand while ignoring what they don't.
It's parallel to covid, people who have little to no idea share opinions which influence others resulting in people making up their minds with incorrect information.
Elaborating a bit on the political side, it's bound to happen on any topic. A common political belief is that everyone has equal opportunity and that men and women are unexchangeably different. These are interpretations, not realities but they're easier to grasp and explain the world with.
Tbh people should take a philosophy course so they learn how to tell perspectives from realities apart.
The point is that most people are simply using this issue as a political tool. It’s clear that most people don’t really care about women’s sports that much
I've heard that argument before and it remains an irrelevant point.
Just because I don't care to watch some women's sports doesn't mean I don't care when fair play and common sense are being trashed along with the women.
The point is that most people are simply using this issue as a political tool. It’s clear that most people don’t really care about women’s sports that much
This. They've moved on anyway. The trans issue only really arose when COVID started to go away. Without vaccine mandates and restrictions to complain about - particularly in schools - they needed to pivot to trans youth, trans athletes, and "CRT." Gotta keep people angry and engaged somehow.
But these days they have abortion bans, attacking Biden & Co for inflation, and increasingly opposing financial support for Ukraine. Oh, and baby formula being given to babies in border detention areas. These strident defenders and tireless supporters of women's sports have gone back to their natural state of not giving AF whatsoever about women's sports.
When those larger macro issues fade from prominence, they'll find a way to lose their mind over a successful transgender shuffleboarder or something.
I've heard that argument before and it remains an irrelevant point.
Just because I don't care to watch some women's sports doesn't mean I don't care when fair play and common sense are being trashed along with the women.
Yes. That argument is no different than an ad hominem attack to derail debate.
Just say that someone doesn't understand women's sport, or care about it, and you've silenced them. Or at least attempted to.
Yes. That argument is no different than an ad hominem attack to derail debate.
Just say that someone doesn't understand women's sport, or care about it, and you've silenced them. Or at least attempted to.
True, and doubly so in that these "progressives" are projecting on their critics their own lack of appreciation for the sports, athletes, preparation, and competition. Their priorities are "the message", milkshakes, and hitting the keyboards.
If things in the West continue on their current path, culturally speaking, what's the likelihood of seeing biological women juicing up with cutting edge hormone treatments to compensate for having to share a stage with trans athletes, or regular women in the future having no problem with elective steroid use since gender as a concept is supposedly becoming irrelevant?