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@cgsweat
You're welcome and yes, you're right. We can never be %100 sure in this topic. However, hiding such a crucial thing like anabolic usage from your trainer is not a wise thing to do if you want good results. I mean it's like hiding alcohol intake from your doctor. Besides, I don't think you can fool an experienced personal trainer in anabolic usage. He'll notice it in a short amount of time. So I think if we are going to question someone's credibility, it should be the personal trainer rather than the women.
@cdcd
lol
> There is a pretty nice evidence based article about this topic: https://mennohenselmans.com/natural-muscular-... > > Author of the article is the personal trainer of these women and he's pretty confident that they're natural:
Thanks for sharing that, and it was an interesting read. He does seem to know what he's talking about, although he does sound a little naive when he says
> It also makes no sense for my clients to lie to me about drug usage, as then I can’t help them as effectively.
It might not make any sense, but it doesn't stop the average "social influencer" to lie about it anyway. In their mind they have this image they have to maintain. If they've already branded themselves as all natural (even if they're not), they will lie about it to the bitter end.
It's not to say that the women shown in the article aren't natural. I don't know them personally, and don't know enough about them in general to speak on their behalf.
I think this guy is full of shit. He claims that the reason that we don’t see more women looking muscular, and by that I mean looking like the clients he profiled, is because they are lifting “tiny pink dumbbells”
More and more women have been hitting the weight room, and I know a lot of strong, natural women who lift heavy poundages but look nothing like those women. I really don’t see that phenomenon as much as some like to claim.
The cynical side of me says that he is making those claims as a way to attract future clients. He is trying to say “Hey, look what I did for these women, so look what I can do for you!”
There is a pretty nice evidence based article about this topic: https://mennohenselmans.com/natural-muscular-...
Author of the article is the personal trainer of these women and he's pretty confident that they're natural:
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There's also a German version of the article: https://gannikus.de/medizin/das-koennen-fraue...
I think these physiques are realistic.
If anyone thinks these physiques are realistic, I have a bridge to sell them.
The average woman cannot attain that kind of size, with that little body fat, naturally. End of discussion. Even the most genetically-gifted, elite, dedicated female athletes can barely get close. Look to Olympic-level athletes for an example.
I've been to hundreds of triathalon and CrossFit meets and personally known both juicing and natty athletes on both sides of the aisle - even some of the enhanced individuals have a hard time keeping up the kind of physique in these photos, and that's with chemical assistance.
The author of that article has a personal stake in making people believe that they're capable of more than they actually are so that they use his services. There's a reason why you won't find a single medical professional who agrees with these kinds of claims.
And Olympic level athletes are juicing. Becuase even freaks need an edge to get past other freaks
The fact that some of you absolutely smooth-brained, gym bro weirdos are so confidently making assertions about a woman's ability to naturally gain muscle with absolutely no biological background is truly fucking hilarious. This is a website with the most muscular women on the fucking planet. Whose to say that they're average? Lmfao
The fact that some of you absolutely smooth-brained, gym bro weirdos are so confidently making assertions about a woman's ability to naturally gain muscle with absolutely no biological background is truly fucking hilarious. This is a website with the most muscular women on the fucking planet. Whose to say that they're average? Lmfao
Thanks professor! Thanks for that shot at gym bros. Yeah we're all weirdos. The gym is the place where literally all the women on this site train, but yeah, weird.
I've only been training 12 years but I'm soo glad to have a smart biology professor like you here. You can explain to us how these women build muscles and what goes on behind the scenes in the fitness industry yaaay
Without steroids there is no bodybuilding.
Natural bodybuilding is just nicely shaped dad and mom bods.
Without steroids there is no bodybuilding.
Natural bodybuilding is just nicely shaped dad and mom bods.
Natural bodybuilding isn't entirely natural. There are competitors who do juice just very carefully not to be caught. It's pretty easy to be enhanced and claim you're natty and get away with it in alot of natural comps.
We should feel honored that someone registered a fresh alt account just to leave that comment
I don't know why some people lose their minds and start making absolute claims in an obnoxious way when someone thinks that a woman can possibly become more muscular than a bikini competitor naturally. No need to be a douche, we have enough of them on the internet.
There's a lot to say but f*ck it. I'm out of this thread.
The fact that some of you absolutely smooth-brained, gym bro weirdos are so confidently making assertions about a woman's ability to naturally gain muscle with absolutely no biological background is truly fucking hilarious. This is a website with the most muscular women on the fucking planet. Whose to say that they're average? Lmfao
Lol, what’s with the projection toward “gym bros?” You do realize that people with a background in strength training probably know more about building muscle than someone who doesn’t train, right?
And again, for the 1000th time NO ONE is saying that women can’t build muscle naturally. What we ARE saying is that they cannot achieve many of the physiques we see here, including the ones that trainer put on his article, unless they get on the bicycle.
Sorry that your fantasy is ruined
That Menno Henselmans article pops up from time to time and it's complete bunk. The man is either a liar or an imbecile and his "evidence" runs contrary to basic biological facts. I truly do not understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.
Hayley Hirshland absolutely isn't natural, so that article can be discarded right away
Indeed. She had severe health problems a while back because of the combination of her steroid usage and dangerously low body fat. She looked "great", but she was clearly abusing her body to achieve that look. It's genuinely gross that somebody would try to market that as a healthy, naturally achievable physique and it tells you everything that you need to know about Menno Henselmens' utter lack of integrity.
I truly do not understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.
I think there are two reasons
This is coming from people who aren’t into fitness/don’t lift, and don’t understand just how hard it is build muscle. It’s hard to build muscle as a guy, and it’s even harder to build muscle as a woman. They believe what comes out of the mouths and keyboards of fitness influencers (a lot of it bullshit,) because they don’t know the reality that PED use is very prevalent among both the men and women. I mean, pretty much everyone here who is a bodybuilder or athlete knows, and try to tell people, that these people are all enhanced. If they’re not going to believe what comes from the people who actually are in the community, nothing will change their minds.
secondly, I think a lot of those deniers have this big fantasy about these women being that strong and that muscular naturally because it enhances their fetish of “women are getting stronger than men!”. Which, nothing wrong with that, but I think the idea of them needing PEDs to get that kind of musculature and strength ruins that fantasy. I guarantee that if any of those dudes met an actual natural female lifter, and take one look at her physique, they would doubt she lifts seriously because she doesn’t have the body that they fetishize.
And again, for the 1000th time NO ONE is saying that women can’t build muscle naturally. What we ARE saying is that they cannot achieve many of the physiques we see here…
This discussion is incredulous. I understand that an FBB is a specific type of buff woman. A person who takes steroids and also probably has surgical enhancements. Surely, this community does not believe that most muscular women in society, the dedicated gym goers, college athletes, NCAA athletes, dancers etc are all taking steroids. I personally know of a female trainer in a former gym that was as buff as many women on this site and was completely natural. Some women do have the genetics to get pretty buff without steroids. There is overlap between the physiques of women on this site who use steroids and physiques of naturally buff women. It’s just common sense. There are so many factors like genetics, training, diet that just can’t be denied.
This discussion is incredulous. I understand that an FBB is a specific type of buff woman. A person who takes steroids and also probably has surgical enhancements. Surely, this community does not believe that most muscular women in society, the dedicated gym goers, college athletes, NCAA athletes, dancers etc are all taking steroids. I personally know of a female trainer in a former gym that was as buff as many women on this site and was completely natural. Some women do have the genetics to get pretty buff without steroids. There is overlap between the physiques of women on this site who use steroids and physiques of naturally buff women. It’s just common sense. There are so many factors like genetics, training, diet that just can’t be denied.
I'm sure the trainer you're referring to claimed to be natty, but that just speaks to your gullibility. The only way that a natty woman is going to be as buff as "many women on this site" is if they have some kind of myostatin deficiency or similar medical condition. No, genetics do not matter. No, diet does not matter. Those impact a woman's potential on PEDs as well as off, but neither will allow a woman to achieve a physique that she simply doesn't have the hormones to build and maintain. You call what you wrote "common sense", but I call it an "uninformed opinion".
This discussion is incredulous. I understand that an FBB is a specific type of buff woman. A person who takes steroids and also probably has surgical enhancements. Surely, this community does not believe that most muscular women in society, the dedicated gym goers, college athletes, NCAA athletes, dancers etc are all taking steroids. I personally know of a female trainer in a former gym that was as buff as many women on this site and was completely natural. Some women do have the genetics to get pretty buff without steroids. There is overlap between the physiques of women on this site who use steroids and physiques of naturally buff women. It’s just common sense. There are so many factors like genetics, training, diet that just can’t be denied.
https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/forum/thread/...
Dude, you think Ida Bergfoth is natural because “she has a beautiful feminine face and smile.” 🤦♂️
I think this is the best way to interpret the validity of that argument: https://youtu.be/_asNhzXq72w
https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/forum/thread/...
Dude, you think Ida Bergfoth is natural because “she has a beautiful feminine face and smile.” 🤦♂️
I think this is the best way to interpret the validity of that argument: https://youtu.be/_asNhzXq72w
He also thinks Olympic sprinters are natty, lmao.
Dude is not living in reality.
This discussion is incredulous. I understand that an FBB is a specific type of buff woman. A person who takes steroids and also probably has surgical enhancements. Surely, this community does not believe that most muscular women in society, the dedicated gym goers, college athletes, NCAA athletes, dancers etc are all taking steroids. I personally know of a female trainer in a former gym that was as buff as many women on this site and was completely natural. Some women do have the genetics to get pretty buff without steroids. There is overlap between the physiques of women on this site who use steroids and physiques of naturally buff women. It’s just common sense. There are so many factors like genetics, training, diet that just can’t be denied.
🤦♂️
I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread
I return to this thread for but one reason. There is a lot of "absolutism" about a woman's inability to be muscular in the absence of PEDs, while ignoring a point I've made repeatedly. I'll restate it again...
Probably 90+% of women won't achieve a double-take amount of muscle without drugs. However to say "no" woman can do it is to say "no woman can be over 6'2" simply because that percentile would also be in the high 90 range.
Where you especially won't see that kind of muscle is within the ranks of what a lot of guys fantasize about; Jennifer Aniston's head on 5'3" petite bone-structured waif version of Lou Ferigno's body.
So thus I do agree that a lot of the women's names tossed about here are not natural. But if you take the 1% of women who've found their way into a gym from the 5% of women with enough natural testosterone to gain muscle, you're still talking about relative thousands of women. By seeking them out, I've probably managed to be intimate enough with less than a dozen over 20-years to know they were both natural and 100% woman.
I submit to you most of the circus-strong women from the days before both Photoshop and PEDs, along with a couple more recent examples...
Karla Nelsen, who probably has this condition:
https://www.livestrong.com/article/386159-rap...
And hasn't trained in at least a decade and still looks like the photo below.
As well as one of the strength athletes I dated who (likely) had an even rarer spin-off condition which produces the same hyper muscularity without the low percentages of bodyfat.
Now you can go back to fighting.
But if you take the 1% of women who've found their way into a gym from the 5% of women with enough natural testosterone to gain muscle, you're still talking about relative thousands of women. By seeking them out, I've probably managed to be intimate enough with less than a dozen over 20-years to know they were both natural and 100% woman.
Gangsta indeed! With this kind of data you should be published in scientific journals!
I think that's it. Thread concluded.
Surely, this community does not believe that most muscular women in society, the dedicated gym goers, college athletes, NCAA athletes, dancers etc are all taking steroids. I personally know of a female trainer in a former gym that was as buff as many women on this site and was completely natural. Some women do have the genetics to get pretty buff without steroids. There is overlap between the physiques of women on this site who use steroids and physiques of naturally buff women. It’s just common sense. There are so many factors like genetics, training, diet that just can’t be denied.
Which are all enhanced by PED use.
Hayley Hirshland absolutely isn't natural, so that article can be discarded right away