How big can a steroid free fbb be?

Look for pictures of women bodybuilders early in their career (if you can find any). That's the closest you'll get to seeing how big a girl can get naturally. For example, here's Cydney Gillon in her early days:

While she MIGHT have been on something, this is more or less what a genetically gifted female bodybuilder would look like.

People seem to either heavily under or over estimate how big a girl can get naturally. Anything near female bodybuilding standard is not natural, it's so difficult for women to get super shredded, and to do it without losing size is clear indication of PEDs.

On the other hand, some people are convinced girls can't get big at all, which is also bullshit. I know girls that don't even work out and have really impressive muscles and strength naturally.

Look back 75 years and you'll get the answer.

Lets hope the future brings safer, less virilizing drugs retaining most of the anabolic potency because it is sad how little muscle a woman can built without male hormones.

You are kidding yourself that there is such a thing as natural muscular woman.

Look back 75 years and you'll get the answer.

This comparison is totally disproportionate. Now people have better living conditions and training opportunities are better. Science has also progressed by leaps and bounds.

Look for pictures of women bodybuilders early in their career (if you can find any). That's the closest you'll get to seeing how big a girl can get naturally. For example, here's Cydney Gillon in her early days:

While she MIGHT have been on something, this is more or less what a genetically gifted female bodybuilder would look like.

Genetically gifted, yes - but definitely not natural. Maintaining anything close to that level of muscularity at such a low body fat is hard for the average male, let alone a female.

Imagine thinking for a second kaitlyn vera could be natural 😄 ...people over estimate how big/lean a women can be naturally by a mile

Women have way less testosterone than guys. Even a guy can't build much mass, many FBBs are known to use testosterone booster. Those that don't use steroids may look less masculine.

This comparison is totally disproportionate. Now people have better living conditions and training opportunities are better. Science has also progressed by leaps and bounds.

Most people have better living conditions, but I don't think the top athletes have better diets and living conditions (except that they have better medical care). The ancient Greeks, focusing resources such as ample food and leisure time on athletes, reached a high level of athletic performance with their almost complete ignorance of science. The human organism doesn't evolve very fast.

There are, of course, many more female athletes today, creating a larger sample to choose from, but the very best natural female athletes today probably resemble the very best female athletes 75 years ago.

I can't help being amused by this thread. Yes, most women can't get large muscles without the aid of drugs, but some -- more than you might think -- have the potential to get pretty big. In the late '70s, after I'd been married a couple of years, I started to get soft from my office job, so I brought out the basic 150-pound barbell set I'd gotten in high school. My wife, who was already muscular (one of the reasons I fell so deeply for her), was intrigued by the idea of lifting and asked to join me.

We measured our biceps at the start; mine were a bit over 13", while hers were about 12 7/8". After about 4 months, we measured them again. I was at 14", while hers checked in at 14 1/4". It's not that she was super strong. I trained much heavier in every exercise -- bench, overhead press, curl, etc. -- but I always had problems gaining size, while she was obviously genetically gifted.

She was shocked and embarrassed that her arms were larger than mine and decided to stop lifting immediately. I badgered her into a couple more sessions later on, but I stopped because she resented it too much. She never came close to being shredded, but neither one of us were interested in becoming bodybuilders. Still, she kept most of her biceps size for many years since she never shied away from physical effort. Because she quickly became bored with a room's layout, she would rearrange the furniture in every room 3 or 4 times a year. Not once did she ask me to lend a hand.

I think someone like guusje van geel is natural (might be wrong), but then again she isn't technically a fbb, more like a fitness model per say.

> Big and strong, but fat. Big lean muscles only with roids.

This is probably the worst take so far

Nah it's pretty accurate, a person can be Big and Natural, Lean and Natural or Big and Lean (but enhanced)

You can't really say what is possible, cause people are lying about drug use on one hand and it's impossible to tell what kind of freaky genetics are humanly possible on the other. There are people out there who look like fitness models without lifting. Little Mikayla, if anybody remembers her, had visible impressive muscle mass and definition at the age of 2(!). To make matters worse, it's impossible to say what is "big". People refer to ladies who are 150 cm tall as "huge" just because of their muscle shapes. It's much easier to look huge in photos than to be in person.

Jodie is phenomenal

Perhaps something like Emma Hartley, Jessica Buettner, Brooke Holladay Ence or Elisabeth Sletten? At least upper body wise

Jodi Miller supposedly was natty but I highly doubt she was not using at least Clebuterol (not a steroid, but still black market drug) and probably Anavar (the lightest oral steroid) I will give her the benefit of doubt regarding steroids but she is the absolute upper limit of what can be achieved naturally and this was only for competition day. She was way less ripped the rest of the year.

Fast forward a decade, she is now using very low dose testosterone (according to her) and she blew up in size even though she is much older.

Take a look at wellness category, probably thats the maximum achievable for a female, but remember this, anyone who competes, is 90% sure they use PEDs

Here's my thoughts about it : a huge majority of the girls who compete, if not all of them, must be on PEDs. But it's not necessarily because of an "impossibility" to get big and lean for women : there are some women with exceptional genetics, with naturally higher testosterone levels than most men, even if it's only a few per generation, and these women could achieve great physique without PEDs. But I'm thinking even those one do eventually get to using PEDs cause they're thinking it would be a shame to have a disadvantage against all other competitors who are using.

So maybe a girl who doesn't compete, who just likes being big and strong, and who is exceptionally gifted could get really big while being natty. But that's not most girls on this site.

Here's my thoughts about it : a huge majority of the girls who compete, if not all of them, must be on PEDs. But it's not necessarily because of an "impossibility" to get big and lean for women : there are some women with exceptional genetics, with naturally higher testosterone levels than most men, even if it's only a few per generation, and these women could achieve great physique without PEDs. But I'm thinking even those one do eventually get to using PEDs cause they're thinking it would be a shame to have a disadvantage against all other competitors who are using.

So maybe a girl who doesn't compete, who just likes being big and strong, and who is exceptionally gifted could get really big while being natty. But that's not most girls on this site.

lol you have no idea.... the average woman has about 10x less test than the average man...so if you have a woman with more test than 'most men' ..... she's a man. lol

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323...

Required reading for those who are at least mathematically competent. Just compare the values in the charts.